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We should learn from California

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by OddsOn, Jun 30, 2009.

  1. OddsOn

    OddsOn Member

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    If you want to see what will happen at the federal level just watch California.

    Here is a nice video that gives you a little insight into the mind set of the people in elected office.

    My perspective:

    I live under a "balanced budget" every day of my life.
    -I pay my bills
    -I don't carry any debt except for my mortgage
    -I save for things I want to buy and pay cash for them
    -I put away money for retirement
    -when life happens I make adjustments to my budget, which sometimes means making sacrifices or pulling money out of one category to cover another
    -and I pay an enormous amount of taxes every year to help subsidize the bumbling efforts of people like this

    Income isn't infinite, its very finite, I live on a balanced budget, is it to much to ask the federal government do the same?


    <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/gJZDusqg6qw&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/gJZDusqg6qw&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xcfcfcf&hl=en&feature=player_embedded&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
     
  2. Major

    Major Member

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    Except California, and every other state, has run a balanced budget each of the last forever years, as they are required to by law. So what exactly are we to learn from them? That having a balanced budget leads to disaster? :confused:
     
  3. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    well that should make for a short thread
     
  4. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    I like California rolls and 2buc Chuck!
     
  5. OddsOn

    OddsOn Member

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    No they haven't......the budget gets adjusted every year along with the taxes.
    Heck my property taxes have gone up 10% a year since 1997 until a few years ago when the people finally got fed up and threatened these idiots in Austin with their jobs.

    They borrow money, sell bonds, shift funds, raise toll fees, increase fees, raise property taxes....the list goes on.

    Reading some of your posts, I think I found the problem...
     
  6. JeffB

    JeffB Member

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    We should learn from California: don't undermine your tax structure. This crisis is as much, if not more, about under-raising revenues as it is about overspending.

    California has lacked the ability to any taxes let alone raise property taxes since the passage of Proposition 13 -- a proposition whose effects derive more from the limits on commercial property than those on residential.

    What is happening in California is the reckoning from the so-called "tax-revolt" of the late seventies. With no ability to increase revenues (including progressive taxation that raises it on wealthy individuals and corporations) or the ability to pass a budget without a 2/3 majority, the state has been held hostage by a minority in the legislature. It has just taken 30 years of shell games and near-depression for the effects of Prop 13 to kick in.

    On top of that, the general public has voted in all sorts of propositions limiting the ability of government to adjust spending. Leaving us in a situation in which the Governator and his anti-government sponsors are hoping to shock-doctrine the state into submission as evidenced by his rejection of measures that would have bought time to deal with this crisis and his attempts to slip into the budget measures voters already rejected during his failed 2005 special election.

    Yeah, there are lessons to learn, including: keep the anti-government, anti-tax ideologues from gaining power.
     
    1 person likes this.
  7. Space Ghost

    Space Ghost Member

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    Talks about issuing out IOU's is considered a balance budge.

    Lets talk some simple math. If I make 100k a year, and I spend (note: not saving anything) 100k a year, and 60k of that is towards creditors, do you not think when something big that sets me back financially is going to give me big problems?

    Social programs are debt. Its not something you can just choose not to do anymore, like eating out at expensive restaurants. If you take on massive social programs, then the state needs to be prepare to fund them when times become tough. A balanced budget is not enough.
     
  8. juicystream

    juicystream Member

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    So having the 6th highest tax burden isn't high enough? The fact that they rank 48th in business climate because of a high corporate rate must really attract business. But lets blame it on Prop 13 that halts property tax revaluations until a property is sold even though the vast majority of property tax goes to localities rather than the state. If CA really wants to put the blame somewhere, they should ask Congress why they spend so much in federal taxes, but only 78% of their tax bill comes back in federal expenditures as opposed to 94% a decade ago. Other states have been getting all this pork barrel spending at California's expense.
     
  9. Major

    Major Member

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    Yes, that's called a balanced budget.

    What does that have to do with learning from California?

    What exactly do you want us to learn from California that would be applicable nationwide?
     
  10. Major

    Major Member

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    Of course it is.

    Agreed. California has gone wrong not having a rainy day fund (unlike Texas) and having everything up for referendums which has locked them into a long of very problematic decisions that can't be fixed by the legislature.

    But none of that is applicable to the federal budget. The original post said that we should learn from California and asked the federal gov't to have a balanced budget. But California, by law, has a balanced budget (the IOUs are a separate problem because the leg and governor can't fix their budget - but ultimately, it will have to be balanced; they can't legally run long term deficits).
     
  11. Major

    Major Member

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    It's also worth noting - the only way to have a rainy day fund is to bring in more revenues than expenditures during the good times. The federal gov't did that in the late 1990's. The result? Bush campaigned on the premise that we're paying too much in taxes and should cut taxes, and that's exactly what he did. It's not surprising then that if you never allow the gov't to take in more than it spends, then you'll have problems during the bad times.
     
  12. kokopuffs

    kokopuffs Member

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    sure, i'll learn from california how to skirt on the edges of bankruptcy for years while looking like r****ds.
     
  13. Classic

    Classic Member

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    How exactly is that woman an elected official? What's sad is that she probably also had a pension the moment she got elected.
     
  14. vlaurelio

    vlaurelio Member

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    where were you the last eight years?
     
  15. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Member

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    pwned.
     
  16. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    I think they took it a step further, the gov't shouldn't have any extra funds. because that would be tyranny
     
  17. OddsOn

    OddsOn Member

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    You can learn that these government social programs are unsustainable and always cost more then they say they will.

    You can learn that over regulation and taxation will run business out of your state (or country) to places that do not restrict them from making a profit.

    You can learn that mismanagement will eventually catch up with you and the tax payers will react.
     
  18. OddsOn

    OddsOn Member

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    The spending is the problem! When times get tough you are supposed to cut spending. Why is it that this point is so hard for you to understand?
     
  19. Major

    Major Member

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    Is this the case for California? Their social programs are expensive, but I don't think they are any more expensive than was expected.

    That's not at all the cause of any of California's current problems. In fact, people and companies were moving there at ridiculous rates which was the cause of the skyrocketing housing market there that recently burst and led to these problems.

    This is true. Except the cause of this for California - the referendum process - doesn't exist at the federal level. Why would they need to learn from California?
     
  20. Major

    Major Member

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    Because overspending simply isn't at the heart of California's problem. Yes, they are a relatively high-tax state, but if they had lower spending, they'd have lower taxes, and they'd still have suffered through a massive revenue drop and they'd still have to make major budget cuts. Their problems are:

    1. Tax revenues came crashing down very suddenly. No state can easily deal with a budget where revenues suddenly drop by 10-20%.

    2. Cutting spending normally can be done - you see it in every other state. But the referendum process severely restricts what can be cut. That is the primary issue here.

    3. Spending naturally goes up during a recession due to basic social service needs. Do you propose killing basic welfare, unemployment, and health programs?

    There's a reason why every state in the country - small, large, liberal, and conservative - have all had massive budget problems. There's also a reason why most of them have been able to solve it except California. It has nothing to do with their spending levels and everything to do with how their Constitution is set up.
     

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