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We need to jettison Tate

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Daddy Long Legs, Jun 26, 2022.

  1. TimDuncanDonaut

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    Think Rocket fans have to look at the how the team dynamic played out.

    In Tate's 2nd year, the playmaking went down but I looked at that as less 'selfish', but more following Coach's game plan. He gets the ball later in the action; so as the shot clock ran down, he was probably expected to score. Versus being a part-time initiator in Tate's first year.

    This is sacrificing, while Rockets continue with the KPJ pg experiment. And this isn't to say choose between Kevin or Jae'Sean. I'm more saying, JaeSean didn't complain when his role reduced (sorry KJ). And if KPJ is playmaking, he didn't necessary improve scoring for Jae'Sean. The thing with being PG/Combo guard, whatever the acceptable label, have to make everyone's game better / easier. In fact more so with the rotational guys, since Green or Gordon could get their own whenever.

    I also thought about who else got more playmaking load; Sengun, but since Al-p was in the 2nd unit most of the year; that was more DJ Augustin sacrificing for Al-P.

    The fact that we added Jabari a shooter, helps Tate's case somewhat. Tate should still work on his 3's, but it's not nearly as bad as if we drafted Paolo. Jabari at 6'10 can play the 3 or 4. Tate also 3 or 4. So I can see Silas rolling out:

    KPJ
    Green
    Tate
    Jabari
    Sengun

    It's OK if some people are not high on Tate ($1.8 mil 2022-23), but I think many would admit, that if Tate goes to another team and not asked to play out of position because of 'short ball'. He'd looked much better. There's no Wood chilling at the perimeter and Tate is asked to guard the opposing 5.

    [​IMG]

    Around the league, teams DO have eyes on Tate. Obviously was good enough to be invited as a sophomore at All Star Weekend's rising stars game. Playing with his peers, he was game impactful. Team barry won the whole thing. Arguably could should have won MVP of the rising star game. We can dig up that game thread and see real time reactions how us homer CFers thought Tate was robbed.

    "The second semifinal also went down to a next-basket-wins situation, with Houston Rockets sophomore Jae’Sean Tate winning the game for Team Barry with a drive through traffic after Team Payton missed a pair of step-back 3s that would have won the game."

    That tournament also included the familiar draftee names: Dyson Daniels, Beauchamp and Jalen Hardy. And Scoot Henderson for next year.

    Yea it was just the all-star weekend, Tate didn't look out of place with his class, in fact he shined.

    He's a talented player (actually underpaid for his production). And in a league where all the young guys are trying to establish themselves, he's shown he's good for the culture. Coaches don't have to worry about mood swings or what buttons to push in practice like a couple other guys on the team last year.

    If Tari ends up balling out, start the best dude. And if Rockets ends up with a 2nd unit of a Tate, a Nix or JC, Garrison, Nawaba, and Garuba, that could be some good defensive bench depth. Who knows how the Nets picks will turn out; need to see if the current crop of guys pan out.
     
    #41 TimDuncanDonaut, Jun 26, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2022
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  2. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    I certainly wouldn't blame anyone else for Tate not looking good, his game is just super limited. He can't shoot, he can't create his own shot, he can't create shots for others, he's too short to do much in the post....he's just a guy that desperately needs to be something like 4 inches taller.

    The issue with moving him is that I'm not sure anyone values him all that much to begin with and he's an asset that is likely to quickly depreciate once the guys we drafted put him on the bench.

    When it comes to assets you know are likely to quickly depreciate, you have to make a decision. Either stick with it knowing it's about to be worthless and accept that fact or dump it for whatever you can get for it. I think Tate means enough to the team to at least give him a chance to show that he magically learned how to shoot over the off-season and can play the 3.
     
  3. TimDuncanDonaut

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    And if depreciation is the concern, do you think Tate will net Rockets a future FRP, where we saw even with Eric and Christian it was difficult. I'm not against trading if the right offer comes along. And it could be that Stone do get calls already, that's just happening in the background and we don't hear about it. Why org have to make it public / awkward, if the talks are just talks and risks ruining team chemistry,

    Despite Tate being in his mid 20s, the Rockets Org currently view him as one of the young guys. Flipping him sounds nice, but if another young guy comes in, that's another mouth to feed and then 2-3 years of wait time to see if that new guy pans out.

    I personally like shooters, and Tate's 3p% is not great, but he only takes 2.6 attempts. So he's not out there chucking like Westbrook when defenders sag. Yes he also ruins spacing somewhat, but 2 non shooters on a lineup might is OK, since we have Jabari now, it's palatable. As far as TS%, which is just more indicative of his efficiency (and shot selection). Last year he was 56.7%, that's actually league average (56.6%). He's actually ahead of Sengun, Green, Christopher, and KPJ. I'm not saying he's better offensively, I'm just saying his offensive deficiency to the rest of team is not this grand canyon sized gap that people paint it out to be. He's the 4th / 5th option offensively anyways, so him being league average overall is OK in my book. Between him and Tari, both guys should keep practicing 3's, if not for the Rockets, for their future teams.

    I think Rockets will give Tate 1-2 more years to see. And if Tate stays the same, might still get a low contract offer, if he's cool with being off the bench, whether he takes that or not, is up to him.
     
    #43 TimDuncanDonaut, Jun 26, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2022
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  4. Bobbythegreat

    Bobbythegreat Member
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    I highly doubt it. To me I don't think he has much value around the league due to the shortcomings in his game I laid out. I think he's a tough player, a fighter....but he's simply too short to have the kind of game he does. Even if he had another 2 inches to get him to 6'6 it would make him a considerably better player given that play style and lack of shooting ability.

    The reason his TS% is decent is because a large percentage of his offensive output is on put backs and things of that nature. He's kind of like a short PJ Tucker that can't shoot and is only okay defensively.
     
  5. TimDuncanDonaut

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    Agree with this. He's a bit like KMJ, that Silas don't run too many plays for. They get their buckets from hustle. To me that's a good thing no? If Green and Jabari are good at scoring, you let those guys do more of that. Tate is low maintenance.

    I like tall wingspan guys; if Tate goes to the bench unit, and Tate defends opposing 1 - 3 (some 4?), then positional size would not be an issue. Switch defense is popular, but as a team you can decide how some of the switches go. Ime for example wouldn't always let Marcus get switched onto the opposing 5. I think Rockets should be choosy as well, just but because sometimes Tate can doesn't mean he always should. The thing is, Silas is not asking any of our other guards to defend guys much much taller.

    A lot of how a player looks is what the coach is asked of them. Because Tate got the young Draymond comp early (unfair?), maybe that's what they were trying to do. With taller wingspan guys we have now; Tari, Bari, Garuba, and maybe Sengun; I think Tate can defend guards/wings more.

    Imagine a situational lineup with Green and 4 switchy defenders to get stops to get a lead back. Tate along with the new additions can be very interesting next year.

    Green
    Tate
    Jabari
    Tari
    Garuba

    This also can be a counter move, if opposing team wants to hunt Green in mismatch. You get 4 other switchable defensive guys. We kind of know what Tate can do defensively. Hope is Tari/Jabari/Garuba can also translate those defensive skills. In those lineups, Tate might have to be the verbal quaterback calling out defensively.
     
    #45 TimDuncanDonaut, Jun 26, 2022
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2022
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  6. Mattician

    Mattician Member

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    I'd like to see Martin and Eason be the starting and backup SF of the future.

    Not sure where Tate would fit in.
     
  7. conquistador#11

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    You need players like Tate. Just cut the 1 man break out unless it's a break away.
     
    tehG l i d e and AB83Rules like this.
  8. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member
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    Tate has a visible ceiling, but we're a year or two away from hurting from it.

    He has value so not sure why we have to get rid of him like a bad taco bell lunch
     
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  9. Bo6

    Bo6 Member

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    seems like Tate has great rapport with JC and Green. I'd keep him for just that alone.

    he's going to look great playing the 3 next to Jabari.
     
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  10. raining threes

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    Which one can bring back the best defensive lane protector I could find to play 20-25 mins per game is the one I would trade.
     
  11. raining threes

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    The heart of a team that has had the worst record in the NBA for 2 years running.

    BTW, I'm not against keeping Tate but if Stone gets a long term piece by trading Tate he should pull the trigger on the deal.
     
    Aruba77 likes this.
  12. BigMaloe

    BigMaloe Contributing Member

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    I think it makes most sense to move him at deadline.

    He still holds value as a competitor on this team and locker room.

    But moving him for a 1st is only likely to be available at the deadline when hopefully he raises his stock even more as our starter.
     
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  13. Astrodome

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    He should change his name to Jettison.

    Jettison Tate sounds cool as heck.
     
    RocketsTerps likes this.
  14. raining threes

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    You like playing offense 4 on 5?

    Tate is a quality bench player. He should only be playing 20-25 mins per game.
     
  15. raining threes

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    For the good of their careers.
     
  16. pass_to_Hakeem

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    * as does Wall
     
  17. hajkov

    hajkov Consummate Member

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    Tate will be looking to make big bucks after this contract year. Unless he proves he learned how to shoot, let him walk or sign and trade
     
  18. CHAMPBOY

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    Yeah he is going to start whining when Eason takes his minutes.
     
  19. JD88

    JD88 Member

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    Tucker is going to be paid 3/$30 at 37 years old.
     
  20. TimDuncanDonaut

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    From most likely to happen to least likely.

    1. KJ Martin Jr. getting moved before end of next season.
    2. Wall buyout.
    ...
    3. Gordon traded next year (I think the Org is a lot higher on him than CFers)
    4. Tate traded next year. (Org still seems to be high on him.)
     

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