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We can re-sign Hakeem, & still make the best Webber offers

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by heypartner, Feb 27, 2001.

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  1. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    There has been a lot of talk on how to re-sign Hakeem, yet still make the best offer for Webber.

    The concensus is we must renounce Hakeem first, and sign Webber, then re-sign Hakeem to the minimum. I've wondered how Hakeem would handle that, especially when suitors come to him after August 1st, when we are negotiating with Webber and Hakeem has no contract. My gut feeling was always, if we renounce Hakeem, he's gone before we finish negotiations with Webber. Turns out, we can re-sign Hakeem on Aug 1st for the minimum to get him under contract, and still have that $1m to offer Webber.

    Here's how it works: Upon further review (reading the CBA for like my 10th time), it turns out that minimum-salary players can be traded without regard to the 15% rule. We could re-sign Hakeem to the minimum. Then the dream day Webber agrees to a free-agent contract, we can trade Dream to any team straight up for a draft pick, thus freeing that $1m salary, which could easily be a make or break amount for closing a Webber deal.

    bottom-line: minimum salaries do not count as outgoing salary when comparing salaries for trading purposes.


    DISCLAIMER: As always, in my never ending search for itty-bitty loop-holes in the CBA, I could be wrong, as I have never heard anyone else mention this scanrio. However, this time, I am not reading between the lines. This clause is in black and white. How I missed it all this time, I don't know.

    all comments welcome, especially ones that close this loop hole on us.
     
    #1 heypartner, Feb 27, 2001
  2. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    hmmmmm,

    a footnote says, Hakeem's $1m minimum salary would only count $590,000 against the cap anyhow, the league actually pays the remainder. So, would $590,000 be a make or break difference for Webber, like the full million likely would?

    hmmmmm

    [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited February 27, 2001).]
     
    #2 heypartner, Feb 27, 2001
  3. Achebe

    Achebe Member

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    heypartner,

    Since Dream wasted alot of time this past year debating about his retirement, I wonder if he'd be kind enough to give the Rockets a bit of time to figure out their path... Does Dream even think about basketball before training camp?

    Since the Rockets can talk to Chris on the first of July, their concern shouldn't necessarily be Dream (provided Dream wants to walk in Charles amazing footsteps). They should be more concerned w/ Mo Taylor. Falk will likely be able to tell Mo what the Rockets are telling Webber.

    ------------------


    [This message has been edited by Achebe (edited February 27, 2001).]
     
    #3 Achebe, Feb 27, 2001
  4. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    That's what I'm wondering. I don't think he would. We should re-sign on Aug 1st for the minimum, and tell him we are sticking with him.

    Also, Achebe, Webber has no incentive to negotiate early, much less sign on the 1st week of Aug. We might be able to speak, but the question is will Webber tell us No Way before Aug 1st, so we can resign Hakeem.




    [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited February 27, 2001).]
     
    #4 heypartner, Feb 27, 2001
  5. Achebe

    Achebe Member

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    Good point.

    Webber might also string the Rockets around in a ridiculous fashion though. If Detroit isn't viable, could Webber threaten the Rockets chemistry w/ Mo and Shandon by postponing a decision?

    [This message has been edited by Achebe (edited February 27, 2001).]
     
    #5 Achebe, Feb 27, 2001
  6. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    yeah, you were right. see my edit.
     
    #6 heypartner, Feb 27, 2001
  7. Achebe

    Achebe Member

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    heypartner,

    I edited my post to reflect your edit. [​IMG]

    I like the alternative that you pose, short of the additional issue of being able to trade a veteran minimum salary. I like the alternative merely b/c Dream could get say $9 or $10 mill the very next year or just some sort of buy out. That way, Dream still gets more than the $4.5 offers he's going to get out on the open market, Webber gets a decent C to play with... and Dream remains in Houston.

    The buckets look to me like Webber and Dream vs. Mo Taylor. I can't see Dream staying to play next to Taylor. I can't see Webber coming to play next to Cato.

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    #7 Achebe, Feb 27, 2001
  8. Toast

    Toast Member

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    You'd be suprised. I think Dream's almost as big a Mo Taylor fan as I am. Mo certainly has all sortsa respect for Dream. Without Dream, Mo probably wouldn'tve come to Houston.

    ------------------
    Founding Father of the
    Refs Suck Club
     
    #8 Toast, Feb 27, 2001
  9. DaneB

    DaneB Member

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    How much space do we have? If we let all the remaining contracts expire, cant we just sign Hakeem to like $5 million, Webber to a $12 million and Maurice to a $4 million? Dont we have bird rights on Hakeem anyway? I thought we could just resign Maurice and sign Webber and then give Hakeem his bird rights?

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    "The Holocaust was an obscene period in our nation's history. I mean in this century's history. But we all lived in this century. I didn't live in this century."
    -Dan Quayle
     
    #9 DaneB, Feb 27, 2001
  10. NIKEstrad

    NIKEstrad Member

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    heyparty-I don't see the negotiation lengths being a problem. Webber will more than likely decide before the July Moratorium ends, and you CAN discuss terms, and even agree, just not sign. At that point (mid-July) we could figure out if Hakeem would stay if Webber is here.

    While the 1 mill thing is interesting, don't you think most teams, and Hakeem, would just assume keep their pick and give Hakeem their own 1 mill exception (actually, isn't that now 1.3 mill?), or their mid level ~4 mill exception?

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    The Serious Police are watching.
    Follow the rules or be assimilated.
    Shandon is underrated.
     
    #10 NIKEstrad, Feb 27, 2001
  11. Lil Francis

    Lil Francis Member

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    Forget that. Give Webber whatever he wants and Dream can have the leftovers if he wants them.

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    President of the Steve Francis, Jamal Crawford,Larry Hughes, and Charles Woodson fan club.
     
    #11 Lil Francis, Feb 27, 2001
  12. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    Are you suggesting that the Rockets to convince Hakeem to stay with us for the minimum and, once he signs on, stab him in the back by trading him somewhere else for a draft pick? One, it's cold-hearted. Two, the 'how will Houstonians react' thing is usually overblown, but here how will we like that? Three, it'll damage our reputation among free agents. Four, what is the amount of time we have to wait between signing Olajuwon to a non-sign-and-trade contract and trading him? Five, isn't there a rule that you can't trade players with 1 year deals? Six, I don't think Olajuwon will play for peanuts.

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    RealGM
    Gafford Art
    Artisan Cakes
     
    #12 JuanValdez, Feb 27, 2001
  13. NIKEstrad

    NIKEstrad Member

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    Though, a million dollars could buy you a whole bunch of peanuts.

    ------------------
    The Serious Police are watching.
    Follow the rules or be assimilated.
    Shandon is underrated.
     
    #13 NIKEstrad, Feb 27, 2001
  14. CriscoKidd

    CriscoKidd Member

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    Hakeem is gone after this season.

    sorry.

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    snap crackle pop
     
    #14 CriscoKidd, Feb 27, 2001
  15. ROXTXIA

    ROXTXIA Member

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    If...I mean, when...we land Webber, Hakeem can re-sign for one year at 1 million. What will the league office do? Hakeem can retire whenever; he can retire after another year, as far as they know. Or he can stick around yet another year with Bird rights intact for, say, 6 million or so.

    I don't like the idea of losing Mo but when we land Webber, Detroit will need his scoring and has the $$$ to land both him and Ratliff anyway...so he should be OK.

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    #15 ROXTXIA, Feb 27, 2001
  16. Achebe

    Achebe Member

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    Ratliff? I thought he was locked up for the next 4 years...

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    #16 Achebe, Feb 27, 2001
  17. Kung Fu Rocketman

    Kung Fu Rocketman Member

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    Dream ain't gonna sign for the veterans minimum next year. I think that the only reason Barkley signed for the 1mil a couple of years ago was because he thought he had one last chance to win a championship. Hakeem's already got two rings.

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    Kapaya!
     
    #17 Kung Fu Rocketman, Feb 27, 2001
  18. aelliott

    aelliott Member

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    Ratliff signed a new deal in '99 and he's locked up until 2005.

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    #18 aelliott, Feb 27, 2001
  19. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    Juan,

    thx for the criticism. I agree. This is dicey and even if I'm right, this may be one big "So What" regarding Webber.

    IMO, your number 4 and 5 are the same. Here is the rule,

    A player cannot be traded, "When the player is playing under a one-year contract and will have Larry Bird or Early Bird rights at the end of the contract."

    I can't really interpret that. First, Hakeem already has Bird rights. It is not like he is waiting for them. I do not believe Coon meant minimum contracts here for retiring vets. This is one of those Coon interpretations where he likely was addressing something else. Otherwise, there are no issues, imo.
     
    #19 heypartner, Feb 27, 2001
  20. 3Rings

    3Rings Member

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    I really get sick of everyone making Charles out to be a saint for "taking" 1 million dollars. The Rockets agreed to pay Barkley the maximum the following year.

    What was Barkley's salary his last year? I know it was over ten million. Charles took the minimum, got the maximum and tried to get a championship. I guess two out of three isn't bad.

    So please stop with the Charles took one for the team when we discuss salaries. That is an urban legend.



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    Respect Hakeem's legacy. A championship in the hand is worth two in the bush!!
     
    #20 3Rings, Feb 28, 2001
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