1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

We are leaving future generations of Americans at the mercy of our Chinese creditors

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by ymc, Apr 22, 2009.

Tags:
Page 1 of 2
  1. ymc

    ymc Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2002
    Messages:
    1,969
    Likes Received:
    36
    Did anyone see this ad? I think it told the truth. Unfortunately, there is nothing we can do about it. China will likely use the debts to stem our growth in the next 10 years. We have no one else to blame but us though. :(

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jlBbKzoXhUFLCxydbAIJiazuLi0Q

    US business ad depicts China as credit card

    1 day ago

    WASHINGTON (AFP) — A US business lobby on Tuesday took out a full-page advertisement depicting China as a credit card and urged President Barack Obama to get tougher with Beijing.

    In the advertisement in The Washington Post, a mock credit card bears the Chinese flag and lists "Your Child's Name Here" as the cardholder. Expiration date -- July 2020.

    "We are leaving future generations of Americans at the mercy of our Chinese creditors," read the advertisement taken out by the US Business and Industry Council.

    It accused China of manipulating the value of its currency, "rampant" intellectual piracy and other below-the-belt measures to boost its exports.

    "Despite promises to get tough, the Obama administration recently refused to name China as a currency manipulator," it said.

    The lobby, which represents mostly small and medium-sized US businesses, said it would place more of the advertisements through the summer.

    "I'm not sure they will have much of an immediate concrete effect but I do expect them to raise consciousness over time," said Alan Tonelson, a research fellow with the group.

    "We wanted to point out what should be obvious to everyone -- that the United States is by far the most open of major economies," he said.

    China became the world's top holder of US Treasury bonds last September, and currently holds around 800 billion dollars, according to official US data.

    Chinese leaders have voiced concerns about return on their investment and recently floated the idea of replacing the dollar with a basket of currencies as the key international unit.
     
    #1 ymc, Apr 22, 2009
  2. orbb

    orbb Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2002
    Messages:
    2,045
    Likes Received:
    16
    All countries "manipulate" currency when it is to their advantage. What do you want them to do... lose money on purpose?
     
    #2 orbb, Apr 22, 2009
  3. thumbs

    thumbs Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2002
    Messages:
    10,225
    Likes Received:
    237
    Who cares? Your children and their children and their children can worry about paying down the debt. Not us. No sireeeee! :rolleyes: Besides, interest payments are a tax writeoff! ;)
     
    #3 thumbs, Apr 22, 2009
  4. glynch

    glynch Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2000
    Messages:
    18,075
    Likes Received:
    3,605
    It is too bad that conservative free market economics has brought us to this.
    Though championed by the GOP under Reagan-- billionaires love the supply side, market fundamenalist hoax and ordinary people love a free lunch of tax breaks--we should realize that once Wall Street captured the Dems, too with the Rubins etc. this is what we got.

    BTW, thumbs, unless you want to just live in the comforting fantasy of little govenment, you can stop talking about the debt if you want to play the anti-tax on the wealthy card.
     
    #4 glynch, Apr 23, 2009
  5. adoo

    adoo Member

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2003
    Messages:
    11,847
    Likes Received:
    7,980
    absolutely.

    as far as "manipulating currency", as compared to Japan, China is but an amateurs. Japan has been doing it longer, since the late 1940s; China has been doing it since the 1980s.
     
    #5 adoo, Apr 23, 2009
  6. michecon

    michecon Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2002
    Messages:
    4,983
    Likes Received:
    9
    Do you get tougher with your creditors/credit card company? I don't see the logic.
     
    #6 michecon, Apr 23, 2009
  7. bingsha10

    bingsha10 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2006
    Messages:
    3,150
    Likes Received:
    371
    future generations?

    try us in 10 years.
     
    #7 bingsha10, Apr 23, 2009
  8. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    61,847
    Likes Received:
    41,332
    Threads like these pop up every so often - and they serve no purpose. Debtor-Creditor relationships go both ways. Future generations of Chinese are also at the mercy of us.


    /thread.
     
    #8 SamFisher, Apr 23, 2009
  9. ymc

    ymc Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2002
    Messages:
    1,969
    Likes Received:
    36
    Unless we default, they are not at the mercy of us.

    If we don't default, they can simply sell some of our bonds regularly when our economy picks up. This will drive up our interest rate a bit and stem our growth.
     
    #9 ymc, Apr 23, 2009
  10. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    61,847
    Likes Received:
    41,332
    Then you just solved your own problem. Congratulations.
     
    #10 SamFisher, Apr 23, 2009
  11. ymc

    ymc Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2002
    Messages:
    1,969
    Likes Received:
    36
    But the cost of default is too great, so that leads to the second scenario which is what I suggested in the first post.
     
    #11 ymc, Apr 23, 2009
  12. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2003
    Messages:
    61,847
    Likes Received:
    41,332
    I don't understand. You just said china was going to slowly divest itself of UST's in order to not disrupt the US economy or their own - how does that lead to China being the creditors once they have sold the debt. And what is China going to invest in otherwise? Blackstone shares?
     
    #12 SamFisher, Apr 23, 2009
  13. Ari

    Ari Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2008
    Messages:
    1,053
    Likes Received:
    22
    At the "mercy" of Chinese creditors? The U.S. is not at the "mercy" of anyone. What are the Chinese going to do, invade?

    We will just have to raise our taxes and pay off interest indefinitely :p
     
    #13 Ari, Apr 23, 2009
  14. Ari

    Ari Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2008
    Messages:
    1,053
    Likes Received:
    22
    The whole "we are at the mercy of China" thing is overstated. We are the guy who owes the bank 100 million dollars, which means that much as we owe the bank, we also own the bank because the bank cannot let us default on the debt.

    So again, overstated. It goes BOTH ways, it really does.
     
    #14 Ari, Apr 23, 2009
  15. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2006
    Messages:
    27,105
    Likes Received:
    3,757
    They will be at the mercy of interest payments and forced to run huge surplus.

    Some crazy fantasy about China running our business is dumb because it is much scarier to think about the actual consequences.
     
    #15 Bandwagoner, Apr 23, 2009
  16. deepblue

    deepblue Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2002
    Messages:
    1,648
    Likes Received:
    5
    I'd get worried when China actually stops lending US money. Until then, keep partying up like its 2005. :cool:
     
    #16 deepblue, Apr 23, 2009
  17. wnes

    wnes Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2003
    Messages:
    8,196
    Likes Received:
    19
    I don't get the China fascination (more like China fear mongering). Is any better creditor out there in the world right now?

    BTW, I just noticed in posts in GARM that YOF has been uncensored. What gives?
     
    #17 wnes, Apr 23, 2009
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2009
  18. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2006
    Messages:
    27,105
    Likes Received:
    3,757
    ************

    YMM

    TOF
     
    #18 Bandwagoner, Apr 23, 2009
  19. juicystream

    juicystream Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2001
    Messages:
    30,617
    Likes Received:
    7,150
    Don't worry. We'll eventually have another global war and our debts to the Chinese will dissappear.

    It is always possible that we could lose a war though. :(
     
    #19 juicystream, Apr 23, 2009
  20. ymc

    ymc Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2002
    Messages:
    1,969
    Likes Received:
    36
    Gold? We would rather printing money than selling our gold.

    Or a big strategic oil reserve?
     
    #20 ymc, Apr 23, 2009
(You must log in or sign up to post here.)
Page 1 of 2

Share This Page