Washington Post: Antrhax Unlikely From Iraq, Possibly US

i've thought this from the beginning, and then, when i saw, or rather, read the letters that were sent with the anthrax, they seemed to be a tad too heavy-handed, a bit too obvious, and i resigned myself to this being some zealot here, taking advanatge of a scared nation.

and damn the media, btw. they handled the immeadiate aftermath of the attacks with tact, but two weeks later, they were as sensationalistic and bombastic as ever before, and they've whipped the nationa into a frenzy over the threat of chemical warfare. cnn is practically oozing with joy over each turn of event, and they pump each one like a rabbit in heat before moving on to the next one.

and while i'm on the subject of the media, am i the only one concerned with the way they're covering the attacks and their aftermath? i've seen pieces on how to bomb a nuclear plant, how to successfully transport small pox into the country and the most effective means for spreading it, barbara walters did a piece on the only institution in america working on an anthrax vaccine, and not only showed the plant, but gave its freaking location...

i mean, is anything sacred anymore? are they doing ANYBODY any good with this kind of reporting? it does nothing more than scare the crap out of the masses, a mass, btw, obviously extremely naive and mentally vulnerable... ugh! i've had to go out of my way to ignore it.

so much for 9.11.01 forever changing our lives...

 

Good point Ric. One of the stupidest things I've seen in my life took place during a CNN commercial about a week or two back. During a break they have a commercial about "How the media might be overreacting and putting the nation into a frenzy" (not the exact quote). So they have this program about media overreacting that is going to ain at night.

Guess what? Just like one commercial later they have another one where they say "First Anthrax, next SMALL POX? Is the nation prepared?"

That was just too stupid!

 

This was state sponsored, I guarantee it. The coating is an anti-static coating designed to render the spores partially airborne (they normally clump together and fall to the ground harmlessly), and the spores are extremely small.

Now the problem with this sporoform coming from a US lab in this quantity is that it has never been produced in this quantity. The US hasn't had an offensive bio weapons program in about 30 years (and no, conspiracy guys, it would be practically impossible to hide), but we do have a defensive program, and small quantities of these weapons are made to test defenses (vaccines, antibiotics, etc). The problem is that the possibilities of leakage (some being stolen) are extremely small, as there are only a very small handfull of individuals who could acquire it from a US lab - and if someone did then they would 99.99999% chance be caught very quickly.

Now it is reasoned that it didn't come from a foreign lab because the bacterium is the Ames strain. I do not know exactly what strain Iraq acquired from us, just where they got it (ATCC, which carries Ames). There are two notable pieces of info about the Ames strain: 1) it is extremely deadly (even without being genetically modified to be antibiotic-resistant), and 2) it is one of the more common strains of anthrax in the Western US. Which means that pretty much anyone who knows what they're looking for can get a sample of it.

Basically what this means is that the bacterium itself is relatively easy to get, but the sporoform is not. Only 3 countries could produce a sporoform of this size and with this coating: the US, Russia, or Iraq. I cannot think of a scenario in which an individual could successfully steal this from a US lab without being caught. I do not believe that the Russians have any interest in sending us anthrax. Saddam, on the other hand, has been at war with us for 10 years.

 

Treeman, No need to go through scientific contortions on the anthrax matter. Why don't you just admit that even if it wasn't Iraq, you just want us to attack Iraq anyway?

 

but glynch they already attack Iraq everyday, almost.

somehow we need to find out a way to kill the 500,000 thousand plus people in a couple of months instead of 10 years.

 

everyday the "experts" go back and forth on whether or not it was "weapons grade" or not.

isn't it true that the initial letters were postmarked before 9/11?? am i wrong on that one?? i thought i saw that on the news one evening.

I have heard both sides, and I don't know what to think. I've gone back and forth. Though I must say, the more I learn about the history of this strain, as treeman points out, the more I think it probably did come from Iraq.

glynch -- as much as you think we can assume treeman just wants us all to believe it comes from iraq, we all do assume that you want us all to believe it didn't, even if it did. but even if it did, it wouldn't be enough to justify US force because we're all bad guys here and we're just getting what we deserve from our mideast policy....thanks for your input.

 

Actually, I would attack Iraq anyway. Saddam must be removed, for our sake and for the Iraqi peoples' sake. They have suffered too much under him, and he will attack us again. Did you know that the 1993 WTC attack was coordinated by Iraqi Intelligence? Of course you did...

But I am still very confident that this anthrax will turn out to be Iraqi supplied and Al Qaeda administered. Unfortunately, those "scientific contortions" are necessary to link it back to Iraq, because for some reason there are those who would want you to ignore Saddam.

Explain to me how such a sophisticated sporoform was obtained in such quantities? Explain to me why two different forms of anthrax are being used if it's just a lone American nut? Explain to me why Atta met twice with an Iraqi Intelligence officer in Prague before the attacks? Explain to me why Atta would inquire about crop dusters if? Explain to me why anyone would ask about a crop duster unless they had a large amount of anthrax to fill the tank? Why ask about a crop duster if you only had enough for a couple of envelopes?

The Iraqis likely have well over 5,000 gallons of anthrax, possibly several strains (that's what was estimated when UNSCOM was kicked out). They have enough to kill every single human being on the planet. Answer my questions in the above paragraph and I'll stop accusing them of giving Al Qaeda anthrax.

 

boy -- we attack iraq everyday...or do you mean we attack iraqi anit-aircraft posts?? quite a difference, my friend. we're certainly not targeting their civilians...i don't think the Iraqi govt can say the same about US citizens.

sorry..but i am not going to buy into the "poor Iraq, poor Saddam" mantra..the man is developing weapons of mass destruction with an intent to use them offensively. and he hides it at every turn. he's been a menace to his own people. the world will be a far better place without him.

 

Interestingly, we've somewhat increased the attacks in the SNFZ on Iraqi targets since the anthrax attacks started. Whereas we used to only target SAMs and their radars, we are now hitting C4I sites on almost a daily basis. It's almost like we're softening them up... When the President told you that you wouldn't hear about everything that went on in this war, did you think he was just talking about Afghanistan?

I'll tell you all another thing I heard from the elves: the tests to determine strain and nucleotide structure (which tell the origin when matched against a database) of anthrax take 12 hours. They already know where it came from and have known since the day after they got a sample off the keyboard in Florida. They're lying to us, trying not to alarm us. No point in doing that while we're at war in Afghanistan.

I don't trust the govt either, but for different reasons. And I'm not necessarily displeased with them.

 

This is for you Treeman (you're right about da gov.)


Vladimir I. Lenin: " A system of licensing and registration, is the perfect device to deny gun ownership to the bourgeoisie."

Adolph Hitler: "The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subjected people to carry arms; history shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subjected people to carry arms have prepared their own downfall."

Senator Charles [Vladimir] Schumer:
"We're going to hammer guns on the anvil of relentless legislative strategy! We're going to beat guns into submission."

FBI Director Louis [Vladimir] Freeh,
U.S. Senate confirmation hearings July 30, 1993:
"The strongest gun legislation ... I will enforce diligently and exhaustively."

Janet [Hitler] Reno,
U.S. Attorney General:
"Waiting periods are only a step. Registration is only a step. Prohibition of private firearms is the goal."

Sarah [Hitler] Brady,
Chairman Handgun Control, Inc:
"Our task of creating a socialist [communist] America can only succeed when those who would resist us have been totally disarmed."



Read those last two again:

Janet [Hitler] Reno,
U.S. Attorney General:
"Waiting periods are only a step.
Registration is only a step.
Prohibition of private firearms is the goal."

Sarah [Hitler] Brady,
Chairman Handgun Control, Inc:
"Our task of creating a socialist [communist] America can only succeed when those who would resist us have been totally disarmed."


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

i hate saddam just as much as any kuwaiti...however iraqis are poor and suffering and dying. due to american sanctions which are basically grave acts of terrorism, at least in my definition of the word.

 

ROXRAN:

I'm a firearms owner, but I fail to see your point (relating it to this discussion)?

I'm actually a fan of Reno's for her little Waco episode in one respect: I believe that if you pledge to end your life fighting the evil US then your life will end. Evil as it sometimes is, the US govt sometimes protects us. I hate to see innocents get killed, but if the whackos are hiding behind them, then there's no choice.

If they fail in this particular case, then I will revolt, too. But I think the administration's doing OK so far... Minus Colin Powell. He is far too worried about offending anyone.

boy (I disabled my ignore for a minute):

Tell Saddam to let the inspectors back in, and the sanctions will be lifted within a week. If, as you say, he's not a threat and doesn't have weapons of mass destruction, then he should let the inspectors back in and we can sort this whole mess out.

What's that? He said 'No'? He won't let the inspectors in under any circumstances? Well, OK then. Just remind him that he can end the sanctions any time he wishes, as it is the UN and not the US that keeps them in place...

(you're back on ignore)

 

That's sad Roxran. We had made so much progress... and then you called Sarah Brady 'Hitler'. Hell, I doubt most of those quotes are even true... but still you called Sarah Brady 'Hitler'.

*sigh*. If you're not going to act moderate anymore, neither will I.

 

The point is related in our confidence in the U.S. and what we should be concerned about...you state: I don't trust the govt either, but for different reasons.

This suggests there are issues you have with the Government pertaining to trust and your rights, and I believe those concerns are warranted. The point of the matter is having the right to know whether it is something that should be known such as the U.S. as a possible source, and our confidence in the matter. My post's point is to state a specific example that affects trust and your rights. If my example suggests infringement of trust and rights, then it is warranted to be concerned as the U.S. as a possible source....

 

I didn't call her that Achebe, that was prewritten...I know you don't agree with me on gun rights, but my aim was to show an example which warrants questioning the federal government's infringement on personal rights (and therefore, trust)...and deducting the reasoning to questioning the U.S. government's role as a source in this matter....

Don't worry I'm still a moderate.

 

Well the US is the ultimate source of the Ames strain, ROXRAN, no one's denying that. It has to be since that strain is indigenous to the SW US. All I'm saying is that it's far, far more likely that since Iraq obtained its anthrax from a company that carries Ames in its line, this is an Iraqi Intelligence supplied and Al Qaeda administrated attack.

We know that the same man who flew a plane into the WTC also met an Iraqi Intelligence officer in Czechoslovakia twice (and a couple of Czech firms have been the target of several biowarfare accusations - look it up), and he also looked into crop duster pilot training.

The coincidence with 9/11 is too much to overlook. The first day that the first case showed up even I posted that it was probably coincidence... There are 16 people infected now in at least 4 states, and the weapons (envelopes) were mailed from at least two and possibly three different locations at several dates, both before and after the WTC/Pentagon attacks.

At the very least, someone planned this ahead of time (months to years ahead of time), and the coincidental timing of such an operation with a separate WMD attack like the WTC would be just too much to postulate. No way two never-before seen events like that happen at the same time. They are connected.

This is not a sinister US conspiracy. It is a sinister Iraqi / Al Qaeda conspiracy. Clear as day.

 

I guess I'm kind of a moderate too. I fully embrace the right to bear flys tied to imitate the natural. LOL, I crack myself up. ohhhhh, I'm here all week folks.

btw, roxran, I've contemplated buying a gun lately, but a) my wife would leave me and b) the government hasn't told me who I can shoot yet (to stop the anthrax).

 

(I promise I won't deviate from this thread's main vein any further after this..)

funny, my wife said she would leave me IF I buy another gun. She already rolls her eyes when I come home with more bullets...but seriously if you do buy a gun: 1. cherish your right and 2. Be very, very safety conscious about it.

 

I hope you don't actually believe that....

I can. Security in this country has been a joke. Besides..maybe it wasn't stolen.

Ahhh...that explains it..a Reno fan. If you have that attitude, what makes you think someone in the gov't doesn't have the same. The logic being.... sprinkle a bit of anthrax here & there in order to panic the people....and maybe we can slip in an invasion on Iraq before the voters get wise. A few innocents die, but dub'ya finally gets to deep six Saddam.

I bet you'll be first in line for your national id card,eh

Actually, your probably right(I hope so), but a blind faith in any gov't is a dangerous thing. Always question authority...it keeps the bastards on their toes...