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[Wash Times] Beijing devoted to weakening 'enemy' U.S., defector says

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by tigermission1, Jun 30, 2005.

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  1. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Member

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    Interesting, although I have learned to never trust anything a "defector" says, but it seems like a no-brainer that the Chinese consider America a threat, and vice versa.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20050627-010217-7779r.htm

    Beijing devoted to weakening 'enemy' U.S., defector says
    By Bill Gertz
    THE WASHINGTON TIMES
    June 27, 2005

    China's communist leaders view the United States as their main enemy and are working in Asia and around the world to undermine U.S. alliances, said a former Chinese diplomat.
    Chen Yonglin, until recently a senior political officer at the Chinese Consulate in Sydney, Australia, said in an interview that China also is engaged in large-scale intelligence-gathering activities in the United States that, in the past, netted large amounts of confidential U.S. government documents from agents.
    "The United States is considered by the Chinese Communist Party as the largest enemy, the major strategic rival," Mr. Chen told The Washington Times in a telephone interview from Australia, where he is in hiding after breaking with Beijing in May.
    All Chinese government officials are ordered to gather information about the United States, "no matter how trivial," he said. "The United States occupies a unique place in China's diplomacy," Mr. Chen said.
    A pro-democracy activist who took part in the 1989 demonstrations in Beijing's Tiananmen Square, Mr. Chen, 37, spent 10 years as a Foreign Ministry official. He said he defected and sought political asylum in Australia to highlight repression of the Chinese people by their government and the ruling Communist Party, as well as the repression of dissidents such as democracy activists and the Falun Gong spiritual group.
    Most Chinese government activity in the United States involves information-gathering carried out by military-related intelligence officers or civilians linked to the Ministry of State Security, Mr. Chen said.
    "I know that China once got a heavy load of confidential documents from the United States and sent it back to China through the Cosco ship," Mr. Chen said, referring to the state-owned China Ocean Shipping Co.
    The information was "very useful" to China's military and related to "aircraft technology," he said.
    The Chinese also send political police abroad to monitor overseas Chinese and others in North America who Beijing considers opponents of the regime, he said.
    China's government has targeted Australia as part of its "money diplomacy" and is working hard to persuade Australia not to send troops to help the United States in any conflict over the Republic of China (Taiwan), Mr. Chen said.
    China has sought to influence Australia's government through high-level political visits and favorable trade and by offering contracts on energy-related products. The goal is to force Australia to become part of a China-dominated "grand neighboring region" in Asia and to "force a wedge between the U.S. and Australia," he said.
    The U.S. government has a close intelligence relationship with Australia and has been working to build stronger military ties, as the Pentagon shifts its global strategy toward Asia with the planned deployment of more arms in the western Pacific region to counter a Chinese military buildup.
    Mr. Chen said he is "frustrated" that the Australian government in May turned down his request for political asylum, a move he thinks was linked to Australian government fears of upsetting Beijing.
    Mr. Chen also said he fears that Chinese agents could kidnap him, as they have done with other exile dissidents. He said he prefers to stay in Australia with his wife and child, but also could seek asylum in the United States if Australia threatens to send him back to China, which he fears would endanger his life.
    Two other Chinese government officials also defected recently in Australia and have revealed Chinese government spying activities.
    Mr. Chen also provided new insights into the closed world of China's ruling power structure and political tensions between President Hu Jintao and former President Jiang Zemin.
    Mr. Hu is not fully in control of the government and military, and Mr. Jiang continues to wield power behind the scenes through allies in the armed forces, he said.
    "Hu is still in the shadow of Jiang and will be until Jiang dies," Mr. Chen said.
    The Chinese leader, however, launched his own version of Chinese ideology at the end of last year that calls for education in advancing the Communist Party. Asked whether Mr. Hu will bring democratic reform to China, Mr. Chen said the Chinese leader is the beneficiary of the dictatorship and, therefore, is unlikely to make changes.
    "For the past 16 years, a lot of people have been looking to see if the Communist Party can change from the top down to the low levels, but nothing changes," Mr. Chen said.
    On China's military buildup, Mr. Chen said Beijing is following the strategy of former leader Deng Xiaoping, who urged China to "bide our time, build our capabilities" -- military as well as economic and political. "What that means is that when the day is mature, the Chinese government will strike back," he said.
    Mr. Chen said the danger of a war over Taiwan is growing.
    "That is possible as Chinese society is getting more unstable," he said. "Once any serious civil disobedience occurs, the government may call for a war across the Taiwan Strait to gather [political] strength from people."
     
    #1 tigermission1, Jun 30, 2005
  2. wnes

    wnes Contributing Member

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    You have demonstrated that you are a sophisticated poster with your views on the Middle East and other topics including Islam/Muslim related issues. But what else do you expect a Chinese defector to sell in order to gain political asylum for hmself - that China has always been in deep love with United States? And he Chen Yonglin is here to expel the myth surrounding China's unilateral affection?

    Seems to me you have an agenda.
     
    #2 wnes, Jun 30, 2005
  3. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Member

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    How so? :confused: I came across the article and found it interesting, so I thought I would post it here.

    No agenda whatsoever on my end as far as this subject is concerned. Sorry to disappoint.
     
    #3 tigermission1, Jun 30, 2005
  4. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    Washington Times and Gertz has been running this weeks long expose on how big, bad China is. I wouldn't put too much on the source anyways.
     
    #4 Invisible Fan, Jun 30, 2005
  5. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Member

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    Isn't that what I said in my initial post? I did question the legitimacy of the source, didn't I?

    Anyways, still, I think it is quiet naive to dismiss the rising tension between both countries. Basically, they are attempting to assert their power/influence on their immediate region (and Latin America to a certain extent, at least economically speaking), while we are attempting to assert our power/influence on a global scale.
     
    #5 tigermission1, Jun 30, 2005
  6. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    I meant the news source and the reporter....

    The last 5 days-
    Chinese dragon awakens, By Bill Gertz
    Thefts of U.S. technology boost China's weaponry, By Bill Gertz
    China's buildup causing 'concern', By Bill Gertz

    It's a given that China will be our future rival. A hawkish stance isn't.

    The articles' legitimacy hinges on quotes of government sources. Gertz is using quotes from military officials, who are trained to plan for any contingency, in his commentary to influence the public on foreign policy....

    I don't buy the response he's trying to provoke.
     
    #6 Invisible Fan, Jun 30, 2005
  7. MartianMan

    MartianMan Member

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    China is doing everything that the USA is doing. Big deal.
     
    #7 MartianMan, Jun 30, 2005
  8. mleahy999

    mleahy999 Member

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    Bill Gertz is not even trying to appear impartial. Is he one of those White house paid propaganda writers?

    I like how he included a Nazi reference in one of the articles:

    "We may be seeing in China the first true fascist society on the model of Nazi Germany, where you have this incredible resource base in a commercial economy with strong nationalism, which the military was able to reach into and ramp up incredible production," a senior defense official said.
     
    #8 mleahy999, Jun 30, 2005
  9. pirc1

    pirc1 Member

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    Exactly. Actually I believe what the US is doing to China is a lot worse than this. Really, what is the big deal?
     
    #9 pirc1, Jun 30, 2005
  10. pippendagimp

    pippendagimp Member

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    Yao is a spy!! :eek: :eek:
     
    #10 pippendagimp, Jun 30, 2005
  11. langal

    langal Member

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    Imagine the uproar if a Chinese spyplane was detected off the shore of California in int'l waters.

    I also wonder what would happen if a Chinese fighter jet bombed a US embassy.

    What will happen if China outmedals the US in 2008? I can see a alot of anti-Chinese rhetoric. The libs and the neocons both hate China (for different reasons though).

    From past history - it seems that China should be suspicious about the West (and Japan).
     
    #11 langal, Jul 1, 2005
  12. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    I just don't get the way liberals look at this. This isn't about trying to say China is immoral. It is about looking at China realistically. They are a rival and they will try to dominate us if they can. That is just reality.

    It seems like you guys wouldn't even care if the US lost its dominant position. Actually it seems like some of you think US dominance is a BAD thing and would think it would be great for a country like China, with few political freedoms and very questionable human rights record, to overtake the US.
     
    #12 Mr. Clutch, Jul 1, 2005
  13. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    What exactly is your point? That the US shouldn't defend itself against possible aggressivenes from China? Libs and neocons don't "hate" China. We need to view them for what they are and purse the right policies that keep the US and our allies safe.

    To sit around and say "well US does the same things China does!" is such a waste of time and a diversion.

    We obviously do not want to keep China down. We want them to develop economically and at the same time make sure they can become a peaceful ally and not an enemy.
     
    #13 Mr. Clutch, Jul 1, 2005
  14. langal

    langal Member

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    "China's communist leaders view the United States as their main enemy..."

    I'm just curious as to why a few right-wing pundits seem to be looking for a fight that isn't there. I'm Chinese so maybe I'm biased. Judging from Chinese history though, I see nothing wrong with a soveriegn nation developing their military.

    While you may wish to entreat with China on peaceful terms and wish for the prolonged development of their economy, someone like Bill Gertz most likely does not.
     
    #14 langal, Jul 1, 2005
  15. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    There isn't anything wrong, per se, with a nation developing its military. Every nation is going to (unless its Europe or Canada). The question is, will China be an aggressor and do things that are bad for the US? Surely you wouldn't want China to cause harm to the US, and considering that the Communist party is in control there is a question as to what they will do if they become powerful.

    We don't want North Korea to develop weapons for example, because we know their motives are not good. I think right wing pundits write more often on the defense of the US and that is why they look at the possible threat from China.

    At the same time, right wing pundits are the ones most enthusiastic about pursuing free trade with China. I doubt Bill Gertz wants to stop trade with China.
     
    #15 Mr. Clutch, Jul 1, 2005
  16. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Member

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    No one can afford to stop trade with China even if they wanted to, it would severely harm both economies. And at this point of time, we don't have much leverage over what the Chinese do because they are financing our enormous debts (along with the Japanese and the Saudis).

    I don't think jeopardizing our trade with China is ever an option.
     
    #16 tigermission1, Jul 1, 2005
  17. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    I agree, but there are still people who rally against free trade and globalization.
     
    #17 Mr. Clutch, Jul 1, 2005
  18. MartianMan

    MartianMan Member

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    I dunno. If you look at history, USA has always been the aggressor, invading numerous nations, covertly orchastrating coups, and placing puppet leaders in countries so that they may control them. China hasn't done that at all. I guess you can say Taiwan and Tibet, but those are countries that China feels is part of China. They have never attacked countries that haven't been part of China. So to go around writing articles 'warning' about how China is going to attack the US is highly ironic. In fact, it's downright hypocritical.
     
    #18 MartianMan, Jul 1, 2005
  19. nappdog

    nappdog Member

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    But.....but.....but.......you don't us to lose our "dominant position" position, would ya? You hate America, dont you? Look, it takes a lot chutzpah to slaughter off races of people and supplant their values and beliefs- all in the name of money.


    Mr. Clutch, I agree with you and Bill Putzz. China is a hitlerisque-type regime bent on global domination, enslavement, and definitely murdering little babies. I heard that their president likes to molest little kids as well.

    Time to invade China, but first we gotta take Iran down. You know these arabs have plenty of oil and plus,the isreali's don't like them too much either.....

    :rolleyes:
     
    #19 nappdog, Jul 1, 2005
  20. J DIDDY

    J DIDDY Member

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    you are right, outside of Tibet and maybe even Taiwan which according to history does belong to China, China has not ever launched any agression against another country. i am majoring in history and my professor concurs. I am fascinated by all the propaganda telling us that China is like the new boogyman. it seems that whatever a country is becoming a superpower there is always some in the media and politics that wanna see them go down.

    i am equally fascianted on how China came to be considered the next superpower cause 60 years ago it was a weak country, locked in a civil war with famine, economic depression. then they were brutalized by Japan. Now look at China, their economy is rising and look at their military.
     
    #20 J DIDDY, Jul 1, 2005
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