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[Wash St Court] Sex between Teachers and 18 year olds Okay

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by pgabriel, Jan 14, 2009.

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  1. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    Wash. court: Sex between teachers, 18-year-olds OK
    By GENE JOHNSON Associated Press
    Jan. 14, 2009, 10:33AM
    SEATTLE — Washington state law does not bar teachers from having consensual sex with 18-year-old students, an appeals court ruled Tuesday in dismissing a case against a former high school choir teacher.

    The teacher, Matthew Hirschfelder, was charged with first-degree sexual misconduct with a minor for allegedly having sex with a Hoquiam High School senior in 2006. He challenged a judge’s refusal to dismiss his case, arguing the student wasn’t a minor because she was 18.

    Hirschfelder, who was 33 at the time, also denies any sexual relationship occurred.

    A three-judge panel of the Washington Court of Appeals unanimously agreed that the case should be dismissed. While the law was written vaguely, a review of legislative history shows that lawmakers only intended to criminalize contact between teachers and 16- or 17-year-old students — not those over 18, the court said.

    “The name of the statute is ‘sexual misconduct with a minor,’” said Hirschfelder’s attorney, Rob Hill, stressing that the state recognizes that an 18-year-old is no longer a minor.

    The state’s code of professional conduct for teachers still prohibits any sexual advance toward or contact with pupils, whatever their age, and teachers can be fired for it. Sexual contact with students younger than 16 is considered child rape or molestation; the age of consent in Washington is 16.

    Hirschfelder has not been able to work as a teacher since late 2006, when he was placed on administrative leave pending an investigation by the school board. He was arrested and charged in spring 2007, after a former choir student told police she had a months-long affair with him that began shortly before she graduated.

    His case did not go to trial because it was stayed pending the appeals court ruling, Hill said. He has been tuning pianos to make ends meet.

    Grays Harbor County Prosecutor Stew Menefee did not immediately return a call from The Associated Press, but he told The Daily World newspaper of Aberdeen that he would consider appealing to the state Supreme Court.

    Some state legislators are set on changing the law. On Monday, six state representatives introduced legislation that would make it a crime punishable by a mandatory minimum of five years in prison for a teacher to have sex with a student up to age 21, as long as the teacher is five years older than the student and at the same school.

    Rep. Larry Haler, R-Richland, the main sponsor of the bill, said he offered it at the request of the Richland School District, after a judge dropped a sexual misconduct charge against a Richland High School teacher because the teacher’s alleged victim was 18.

    “This is a real concern of mine, and with the court decision today, that just strengthens this bill,” Haler said. “We need to protect our students as long as they’re in our public schools, irrespective of age.”
     
    #1 pgabriel, Jan 14, 2009
  2. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Member

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    I guess it shouldnt be a crime, but the teacher should be fired.
     
    #2 Mr. Clutch, Jan 14, 2009
  3. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    This is like Sexual Harassment type thing
    esp when you deal with the power differentials

    Question: In the future. . when a Teacher and an 18 have sex . . . say . . uhm . . to get a passing grade. . . will that be considered ok?
    It will be d*mn near impossible to prove that is was for a grade and not just two adult hooking up.

    Alot of abuse in this . . . causes more problems than it solves

    Rocket River
     
    #3 Rocket River, Jan 14, 2009
  4. Qball

    Qball Member

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    No prob, the 18 year old is learning quick on how to get yourself up the corporate ladder ;).

    18 is 18, don't make special cases for teachers. It's a profession just like any other. If that 18 year old didn't know what was best for her when she consented to having sex, change the age of when we consider a person "adult" enough to have sex.
     
    #4 Qball, Jan 14, 2009
  5. ghettocheeze

    ghettocheeze Member

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    Love what you said. 18 is 18 whether its smoking, joining the military or getting a BJ from your teacher.
     
    #5 ghettocheeze, Jan 14, 2009
  6. Shaud

    Shaud Member

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    Most 18 year olds should be out of high school anyway.
     
    #6 Shaud, Jan 14, 2009
  7. GuerillaBlack

    GuerillaBlack Member

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    Or at least be turning 18 during their senior year. As for me, I'm a baby. I'm a senior, but I turn 18 in August of this year.
     
    #7 GuerillaBlack, Jan 14, 2009
  8. Supermac34

    Supermac34 President, Von Wafer Fan Club

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    I don't think the ruling says that its OK, I think its just saying that its technically not illegal and he shouldn't be brought up on charges.

    The ruling, however, does not prevent the school from firing him for this, and it does not keep any civil suits out of the courts.
     
    #8 Supermac34, Jan 14, 2009
  9. OddsOn

    OddsOn Member

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    Nothing good can come of this......yet another chip on the pillars of our great society... :eek:







    Unless you are the 18 year old bumping uglies with the theacher.....then its all good! :D
     
    #9 OddsOn, Jan 14, 2009
  10. Shaud

    Shaud Member

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    Same my Senior year I was 17. I turned 18 in July. But you're right some turn 18 during their senior year.

    I have no problem with a teacher having sex with an 18 year old senior.
     
    #10 Shaud, Jan 14, 2009
  11. ChrisP

    ChrisP Member

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    That seems kind of arbitrary.

    It seems to me that if age of consent is already established and the delineation between minor and adult is established in the criminal code, it makes no sense to redefine these things situationally.

    On the other hand, I don't see anything wrong with it being a fire-able offense for a teacher to have sex with a student at the same school, no matter what the age (how could the teacher's objectivity not be compromised?). Just not a crime.
     
    #11 ChrisP, Jan 14, 2009
  12. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    All I know is. . any teacher violating my child will WISH they were in prison

    :)

    Rocket River
     
    #12 Rocket River, Jan 14, 2009
  13. Dairy Ashford

    Dairy Ashford Member

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    Worse still, I wonder if these people would end up having to register as sex offenders.
     
    #13 Dairy Ashford, Jan 14, 2009
  14. Steve_Francis_rules

    Steve_Francis_rules Member

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    I didn't think it was clear in the article whether she was actually a student of his or just a student at his school. Either way, he should be fired for it if he is guilty.
     
    #14 Steve_Francis_rules, Jan 15, 2009
  15. Steve_Francis_rules

    Steve_Francis_rules Member

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    This is a great idea because what we really need in this country is an excuse to imprison even more nonviolent offenders. :rolleyes:
     
    #15 Steve_Francis_rules, Jan 15, 2009
  16. rhadamanthus

    rhadamanthus Member

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    This is stupid. You already have an age of consent. End of story.
     
    #16 rhadamanthus, Jan 15, 2009
  17. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    That's true. The rationale, as I see it, of criminalizing sex with your students is because, as a teacher, you are in a position of power over the student. If you want to keep teachers from exploiting that, there's no reason to make allowances for young teachers. The power relationship is the same.

    I was initially in favor of criminalizing sex with students, but I think I've changed my mind on 18-year olds. If the power-position trumps the consideration of age, then we should have similar laws about bosses, therapists, church elders, and other professions that enjoy a similar power relationship. They seem to want to make a quasi-adult status between 18 and 21 years old where they still get some extra protection from the state. I don't see any basis for providing that protection (other than the fact that 18-21 year olds are dumb and naive).

    Besides, 18-21 year old students will still have the protection of sexual harassment/discrimination laws.
     
    #17 JuanValdez, Jan 15, 2009
  18. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Member

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    If you're old enough to take a shot for your country, you're old enough to take a shot from your teacher.
     
    #18 Invisible Fan, Jan 15, 2009
  19. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    I don't think I'd want it criminalized....but I'm pretty certain I wouldn't want him to keep his job at that public school any longer.
     
    #19 MadMax, Jan 15, 2009
  20. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    Totally agree. I don't think criminalizing sex between two people of age is going to work based on what their profession is.

    What if the situation is there is a 22 year old middle school gym teacher who is dating an 18 year old high school student. The headline on that would say "Teacher having sex with student" yet that doesn't tell the whole story.
     
    #20 rocketsjudoka, Jan 15, 2009
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