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Was this disinformation?

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Sweet Lou 4 2, May 21, 2022.

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What this tweet by the Clinton Campaign the spreading of disinformation?

  1. Yes

    8 vote(s)
    66.7%
  2. No

    4 vote(s)
    33.3%
  1. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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  2. Astrodome

    Astrodome Member
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    She did what she felt like she had to do.
     
  3. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

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    Disinformation is a subset of propaganda and is defined as false information that is spread deliberately to deceive people.

    1.) Is this false information
    2.) Is this spread to deliberately deceive people

    Here is the cliff notes from the most up to date right wing sources.

    A key missing piece of information is what does "to produce" mean. Did he ask Fusion GPS to make something up? Or did they legitimately find something?

    If they asked Fusion GPS to make something up, then yes, this is disinformation. However the context clues of Mook saying they didn't know if the data was real, leads me to believe it was was not, and therefore not disinformation.

    Regardless, either way, its not really a scandal.
     
  4. basso

    basso Contributing Member
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    undoubtedly.

    "The Russia-Trump collusion narrative of 2016 and beyond was a dirty trick for the ages, and now we know it came from the top—candidate Hillary Rodham Clinton. That was the testimony Friday by 2016 Clinton campaign manager Robby Mook in federal court, and while this news is hardly a surprise, it’s still bracing to find her fingerprints on the political weapon.

    Mr. Mook testified as a witness in special counsel John Durham’s trial of Michael Sussmann, the lawyer accused of lying to the FBI. In September 2016, Mr. Sussmann took claims of a secret Trump connection to Russia’s Alfa Bank to the FBI and said he wasn’t acting on behalf of any client. Prosecutors say he was working for the Clinton campaign.

    Prosecutors presented evidence this week that Mr. Sussmann worked with cyber-researchers and opposition-research firm Fusion GPS to produce the claims on behalf of the Clinton campaign, and to feed them to the FBI. An FBI agent testified that a bureau analysis quickly rejected the claims as implausible. (Mr. Sussmann has pleaded not guilty.)

    Prosecutors asked Mr. Mook about his role in funneling the Alfa Bank claims to the press. Mr. Mook admitted the campaign lacked expertise to vet the data, yet the decision was made by Mr. Mook, policy adviser Jake Sullivan (now President Biden’s national security adviser), communications director Jennifer Palmieri and campaign chairman John Podesta to give the Alfa Bank claims to a reporter. Mr. Mook said Mrs. Clinton was asked about the plan and approved it. A story on the Trump-Alfa Bank allegations then appeared in Slate, a left-leaning online publication.

    On Oct. 31, 2016, Mr. Sullivan issued a statement mentioning the Slate story, writing, “This could be the most direct link yet between Donald Trump and Moscow.” Mrs. Clinton tweeted Mr. Sullivan’s statement with the comment: “Computer scientists have apparently uncovered a covert server linking the Trump Organization to a Russian-based bank.” “Apparently” is doing a lot of work in that sentence.

    In short, the Clinton campaign created the Trump-Alfa allegation, fed it to a credulous press that failed to confirm the allegations but ran with them anyway, then promoted the story as if it was legitimate news. The campaign also delivered the claims to the FBI, giving journalists another excuse to portray the accusations as serious and perhaps true.

    Most of the press will ignore this news, but the Russia-Trump narrative that Mrs. Clinton sanctioned did enormous harm to the country. It disgraced the FBI, humiliated the press, and sent the country on a three-year investigation to nowhere. Vladimir Putin never came close to doing as much disinformation damage."

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/hillar...usion-alfa-bank-11653084709?mod=hp_opin_pos_1

    https://www.wsj.com/video/series/jo...tigation/0368D419-8F67-4A21-A523-EFEA8FC8C4B0
     
  5. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    But the Trump administration never said there wasn't data being exchanged between the servers, the fact that computer scientists discovered that there was information being exchanged between the servers is factual. Do you acknowledge that?
     
  6. txtony

    txtony Member

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    Yes. Taking it to the FBI privately is the right thing to do. Once the FBI rejected it, taking it to the media is misinformation WITHOUT stating that the fbi has rejected it.

    No. Taking it to the FBI is the right thing to do. Once the FBI has immediately rejected it, the distrust of the FBI under Comey was enough to go ahead and push it to the media.

    Me - more yes than no.

    The Trump right confused this with the cause of the Russian Trump investigation. It has very little to nothing to do with it.
     
  7. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    Why was it misinformation?

    The fact that the servers were communicating is an accepted fact by all parties - even the Trump campaign admitted it.
     
  8. krosfyah

    krosfyah Contributing Member
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    This story isn't proof that Clinton manufactured the entire Trump-Russia narrative. The whole collusion story had been running long before this story surfaced.

    I believe it was Trump himself that invited Putin to "find the emails" (which itself was a false narrative but that is another story). Further, Trump hosting Russian officials without an American journalist in the room, highly unusual. And then obviously, the bid to open Trump Tower Moscow were just three things off the top of my head that Trump himself promoted. His cozy relationship with Russia was simply unprecedented in US politics and deserved the negative attention that he brought upon himself.
     
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  9. wizkid83

    wizkid83 Contributing Member

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    This was disinformation. But no one will care because Trump have changed the game last few years.
     
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  10. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    So how can something be disinformation if it's factually true? That's what I find puzzling about the whole thing.
     
  11. wizkid83

    wizkid83 Contributing Member

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    I get what you're saying, that what was reported was true (and the data behind it still remains proven true so far). However, the question I would ask was if Pizza gate or hunter bidens emails were disinformation.

    This situation, especially with being released unproven and uncorroborated falls in line with the other. Clintons camp leaked it not because they trust the integrity of info but because they believe it will smear.


    That said, for those that do care, Clintons info were not false.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/01/us/politics/trump-alfa-bank-indictment.html
     
  12. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Contributing Member
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    It wasn't a leak though. It was factual information and they gave it to the press. Yes there is political motivation behind it, but that's not a leak nor does that make it misinformation.

    The current trial is about whether someone lied to the FBI about whether or not it was campaign related or acting as a concerned citizen. That's nearly impossible to prove the intent of the individual one way or the other unless you have some evidence that the campaign instructed him to give it to the FBI which thus far hasn't shown up.

    Given the special prosecutor in this case was appointed by Trump, it does raise questions whether this is actually right wing disinformation to smear the Clinton campaign.
     
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  13. txtony

    txtony Member

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    The best misinformation are those that rely on facts to mislead. The fact that there are *weird* communications between servers means nothing other than suspicion. The implication that that means there is some kind of hidden secret between the two parties is misleading (hidden secret or not, server communication in and of itself without more information doesn't tell you that).
     
  14. basso

    basso Contributing Member
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    you seem to be saying that even tho the entire collusion narrative was a fiction created by the Clinton campaign, it's ok, because Trump was cozy w/ Russia anyway.
     
  15. basso

    basso Contributing Member
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    I do not.
     
  16. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

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    That's gonna be a problem dawg.

    You are dealing with an alternate set of facts.
     
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  17. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member
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    It's the same as Bush and Co convincing most of America and congress that Saddam had ties to 9/11 without them directly saying it.

    Slimy as ****
     
  18. krosfyah

    krosfyah Contributing Member
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    Nope. "Collusion" isn't an actual legal term and as such means it's literally impossible to be found guilty of it. In legal terms, semantics matter. But the talking heads try to weave it together to say he wasn't guilty of "collusion", which is true, because collusion was never against the law. So the use of the term is just a way to reframe it for stupid citizens that can't tell the difference.

    That said, Trump very obviously had communication with Putin and he was opening proud of it. Do you honestly think Trump had no communication with Putin while he was trying to build a hotel in Moscow? He famously maintained that line of communication after he was in the white house.

    If Clinton had that level of coziness the soviet dictators, no way Trump doesn't blow that horn daily.

    So did Clinton try to draw attention to it? No doubt. You would have done the same. Anybody would.
     
  19. basso

    basso Contributing Member
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    As are you.
     
  20. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    Your proposition is false.
    It was found that Trump's campaign sought information from the Russian government.

    It was found and proven that Trump's campaign gave information to the Russian government. That is collusion. It wasn't a provable crime in part because the Trump campaign was ignorant it was a crime. In this case ignorance of the law is an excuse.

    Read the report, Jr.
     

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