Was Jesus really Julius Caesar???? (I am not advocating this)

That religion thread got me searching for stuff about religion and I found this odd thing.

Italian F. Carotta has analyzed the gospel of Mark and
discovered that it is only a bad translation of the history of the
roman civil war. Jesus turns out to be Divus Julius, the deified
Julius Ceasar.
Carotta's book ("War Jesus Caesar?" )is at the moment only available in German, but a here is an English summary he provides:

The question is:

IS JESUS DIVUS JULIUS?
(IS JESUS THE HISTORICAL FIGURE OF DIVUS JULIUS TO WHICH CAESAR WAS ELEVATED?)

Essence of the debate:


A) ICONOGRAPHY OF CAESAR DO NOT FIT OUR IDEA OF HIM.
In our minds he is a field marshall and a dictator. However, on authentic images (statues and coins) the idea of clementia Caesaris is emphasized. The bust conserved in the Torlonia museum resembles Jesus significantly. Even the wreath he wears, mostly the oak wreath of the Soter, corresponds in form and significance to the crown of thorns worn by the Savior.


B) JESUS’ LIFE IS CONGRUENT TO THE LIFE OF CAESAR.
Both began their careers in northern countries: Caesar in Gaul, Jesus in Galilee; both cross a fatal river: the Rubicon and the Jordan; both enter then a town: Corfinium and Cafarnaum; Caesar finds Corfinium occupied by a man of Pompey, while Jesus finds a man possessed by an impure spirit. There is similarity in structure as well as in names: Gallia > Galilaea; Corfinium > Cafarnaum; occupied > possessed (both said in Latin obsessus). The similarities are consistent throughout (when occupation or besieging is referred to in the one, possession is used in the other, etc.)


C) CHARACTERS IN THE STORY OF CAESAR AND OF JESUS ARE STRUCTURALLY THE SAME, AND ALSO BY NAME – THE SAME APPLIES TO LOCATION:

Caesar > Jesus
Pompey > John (the Baptist)
Antony > Simon
Lepidus > Peter
(Decimus) Junius (Brutus) > Judas
(Marcus Junius) Brutus > Barabbas
Octavian (Augustus) > John (the disciple)
Nicomedes > Nicodemus
Cleopatra > (Mary) Magdalene
Julia (widow of Marius) > Mary
Senate > Council
Gaul > Galilee
Corfinium > Cafarnaum
Rom > Jerusalem
etc.

People and places in both stories have the same functions:
Pompey is the political godfather of Caesar and competes with him in the same way John the Baptist does with Jesus.
Antony and Lepidus became Caesar’s successors, the first as flamen, high priest of the Divus Julius cult, the second as pontifex maximus just as Simon and Peter do with Jesus (they both melt into one figure—Simon Peter).
Decimus Junius Brutus is a traitor to Caesar as Judas is to Jesus.
The other Brutus is Caesar’s murderer and Barabbas is a murderer.
Octavian is the young Caesar, his posthumously adopted son. John is adopted by Jesus as he is dying on the cross.
Nicomedes of Bithynia was said to have had night meetings with Caesar as did Nicodemus of Bethany with Jesus.
Cleopatra had a special relationship with Caesar as did Mary Magdalene with Jesus.
Julia, Caesar’s aunt and widow of Marius functions as Jesus’ mother Mary did.
The Senate is Caesar’s enemy, just as the Council is Jesus’ Satan.
Caesar comes from Gaul, in the north, at the beginning of the Civil War, while Jesus also comes from Galilee, in the north, at the beginning of his public life.
Corfinium is the first place Caesar takes and Cafarnaum is the first town which Jesus enters.
Rome is the capital, where Caesar first triumphs and later is assassinated. Jerusalem is the city where Jesus is celebrated on Palm Sunday and later put to death.


Names correspond in writing or phonetically—Gallia and Galilaia, Corfinium and Cafarnaum, (Julia) Mària and Marìa, Nicomedes of Bithynia and Nicodemus of Bethania, etc. In other cases the resemblance is not as obvious but can still be recognized: Junius (Brutus) and Judas, Brutus and Barabbas, senatus and Satanas, etc., or even ROMA and HieROsolyMA, Antonius and Simona (mirror readings, from right to left, as if it were written in Aramaic), etc.


D) ALL OF CAESAR’S QUOTATIONS ARE FOUND IN THE GOSPELS—IN STRUCTURALLY SIGNIFICANT PLACES.
Most sayings are word for word, sometimes with unimportant differences:
«He who does not take sides is on my side» reoccurs as «He who is not against us is with us».
«I am not King, I am Caesar» appears as «We have no king but Caesar».
«The best death is sudden death» appears as «What you do (lead me to death) do quickly».
«Oh, have I saved them so that they can destroy me?»—is «He saved others, but cannot save himself.»


Only in two cases are there slight, yet meaningful distortions:
«Alea iacta est(o)», «The die is cast», became «… casting (a net into the sea): for they were fishers» (confusion of lat. alea, die, and gr. (h)aleeis, fishers)—the miraculous netting of fish).
«Veni vidi vici», «I came, I saw, I conquered”, changed to «I came, I washed and I saw.» (confusion of enikisa, I won, and enipsa, I washed)—the healing of the blind.
The pattern is easily recognized: the miraculous victories of Caesar become the victorious miracles of Jesus.
Accordingly Caesar’s clashes with the Caecilii, Claudii and Metelli mutate into the healing of the blind (lat. caecilius = blind), lame (lat. claudius = the lame) and crippled (metellus mistakenly from mutilus = mutilated).


There appear to be alterations in the text which must have taken place during the long copy process: the Gospel would therefore have originated from a mis-copying of a report on the Roman Civil War—first from cumulative copying mistakes and then a final «logical» editing.
Other observations confirm these results. Ex:


E) THE EASTER LITURGY DOES NOT FOLLOW THE GOSPEL BUT THE RITUAL OF CAESAR’S FUNERAL (as Ethelbert Stauffer proved, cf. Jerusalem und Rom im Zeitalter Jesu Christi, Bern 1957, p. 21).
Fire does not appear in the Gospel but it is of utmost importance in the Easter Vigil as it is in the cremation of Caesar. Nevertheless in the Gospel the fire does not disappear without trace: the PYRA mutates into MYRA, the stake into myrrh (which is given to Jesus with wine or vinegar respectively).
Consequently, the Vercingetorix suit of armor, which should have hung at the trophy, the cruciform memorial of victory, at the head of Caesar’s bier, was replaced by Anthony with a wax representation of the assassinated body of Caesar, stripped of the blood splattered toga and exposed to all the mourning who perceived it as a cross.
The corresponding dates of death, the Ides of March and the 15th day of Nizan are a further chronological confirmation of the Easter Vigil representing Caesar’s death.
What emerges from the comparison is the fact that no matter what is compared the same structures and sequences are found and differences are reduced to simple mix up of letters. What really changes is the perception.
All of these similarities—there is a complete synopsis of Caesar’s biography and Mark’s gospel in the German text; the lectures stress the gems found in writing mistakes and mutations; the iconography studied stress the fact that typical Jesuanic traits such as the Pieta-face, the crown of thorns, the long hair, the beard, the clothing, the crosier, the aureole, all variations of the cross, the Resurrection, the Ascension, etc. previously occur on coins with Caesar’s likeness and are still evident in those minted by Antony and Octavian Augustus—cannot be attributed to pure chance and require an explanation.
The most convincing is:


THE JESUS CULT IS ACTUALLY THE CULT OF DIVUS JULIUS, MODIFIED OVER THE COURSE OF CENTURIES IN VETERAN COLONIES IN THE EASTERN PART OF THE EMPIRE.
The proximity of languages offered a convenient breeding ground for this change with the Latin of the colonies slowly giving way to the Greek of the surroundings (with occasional emergence of the Aramaic substratum).
The political changes which occurred with Vespasian and Titus after the Jewish war, such as the necessity of integrating Jews into the empire, led to the development of a cult and texts ad usum Iudaeorum: Divus Julius became the Messiah. Adding quotes from the Biblia Iudaica, which replaced the classical one, helped to make the most Roman of all histories Jewish story.


SUMMATION: The protoevangelium seems to be the historiae of Asinius Pollio, which were not only the basis for the works of future historians (particularly Appian and Plutarch), but also the basis for liturgical texts used throughout the entire empire in the caesarea, the temples of Divus Julius. This popular version, anchored in the daily and religious life of the people, was transformed by the cult and changed during the copying and translation process—traduttore traditore—and eventually became our Gospel. The fact that the Church always claimed that St. Mark’s Gospel was written in Latin, in Rome twelve years after the Lord departed is confirmed in an impressive way.


RESULT: The century long debate as to whether the Gospels are history or literature, a product of tradition or editing, is traced back to objective and verifiable proofs and proven. The question as to whether Jesus was actually a historical figure is also solved: Jesus is the historically transmitted figure of Divus Julius.


Odd, eh?

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I have just realized that the stakes are myself
I have no other
ransom money, nothing to break or barter but my life
my spirit measured out, in bits, spread over
the roulette table, I recoup what I can
nothing else to shove under the nose of the maître de jeu
nothing to thrust out the window, no white flag
this flesh all I have to offer, to make the play with
this immediate head, what it comes up with, my move
as we slither over this go board, stepping always
(we hope) between the lines

[This message has been edited by rimbaud (edited June 20, 2001).]

 

TPL,

I know nothing about the cult of Caesar.

I think this is a strange theory and cannot really make a valid comment on it based upon a summary. I would be interested to read the book, no matter hw far-fetched it may be.

I do, however, think that Paul's theology is more founded in Hellenism than Judaism. But that is an altogether different issue.

I would say that I would believe a usage (or borrowing) of the myth stories elements by Mark before I would believe a misinterpretation of said Caesar myth.

------------------
I have just realized that the stakes are myself
I have no other
ransom money, nothing to break or barter but my life
my spirit measured out, in bits, spread over
the roulette table, I recoup what I can
nothing else to shove under the nose of the maître de jeu
nothing to thrust out the window, no white flag
this flesh all I have to offer, to make the play with
this immediate head, what it comes up with, my move
as we slither over this go board, stepping always
(we hope) between the lines

 

You guys are really, really strange.

------------------
Squatting on old bones and excrement and rusty iron, in a white blaze of heat, a panorama of naked idiots stretches to the horizon. Complete silence-their speech centers are destroyed-except for the crackle of sparks and the popping of singed flesh as they apply electrodes up and down the spine. White smoke of burning flesh hangs in the motionless air. A group of children have tied an idiot to a post with barbed wire and built a fire between his legs and stand watching with bestial curiosity as the flames lick his thighs. His flesh jerks in the fire with insect agony.