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*warning: random, unlikely trade idea* CBA experts pls help

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by ty185, Jul 28, 2005.

  1. ty185

    ty185 Member

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    *warning: the trade idea I'm going to post is a random, risky, and extremely unlikely trade to happen. Nevertheless, I feel it's of enough value to discuss whether this trade is at least conceptually legal and believe it could be a possible exploits under some rare situations. if you are looking for a trade rumor or plausible trade scenario, this probably is not the thread you hoped.*





    I was thinking about the amnesity rule and its possible implications to the league when this idea jumped out randomly: in order to prevent exploits, the amnesity rule stated that you can not re-sign the player you just cutted until the contract expires. what about, then, we trade the player to an under-the-cap team, have them cut him for us, and re-sign the player?

    before everyone jumps all over me with questions like who, why and how, let me try to explain my proposed trade a bit more before we get into the long discussion of how likely this is going to happen.

    unlikely trade scenario:

    step 1: we reach a wink wink deal with juwan howard about him coming back for vet's min. when he gets cutted.
    step 2: we trade Juwan Howard and 3 mil cash and some draft choice to an under-the-cap team like NO.

    step 3: we sign player NoName to a non-garanteed minimum contract
    step 4: we trade player NoName and 3 mil cash to NO
    step 5: NO cuts player NoName
    step 6: repeat step 3-5 ten times, so we send a lot of cash to NO, in essence paying the whole Juwan contract for NO

    step 7: NO cuts Juwan under the amnesity rule
    step 8: we sigh Juwan back for vet. min.


    logics of this who bunch of crazy trades:

    why Juwan does it: well, he gets paid. and he gets a vet. minimun contract on top of what he has.

    why player NoName does it: well, who cares... I'm sure we can find some player willing to facilitate the trade like that for small changes. Hell, CD can sign his father as a FA and trade him to NO and let NO cut him...

    why rox does it: well, this basically increases rox's luxTax threshold by about 7 or 8 million in the next couple of years. Although rox effectively still pays the same amount (or a little more even) of salaries to Juwan, it now becomes more feasible for them to use MLE again next season to aquire another player without getting into luxTax territory.

    why NO does it: well, in case their plan is standing pat and save money, they might as well use their idle cap room to get some draft choices. This whole trade is not going to cost them a penny anyway.


    AND YES YES... I know this trade is not gonna happen for so many reasons. but let's examine the reason why it won't happen, shall we?


    reason 1: Juwan might boozer us after he gets cut and go for the highest bid as a FA
    reason 2: NO might decide not to cut Juwan and have him play for them for the next whatever years
    reason 3: NO might not want to tie up their cap room for so long just for a couple of draft choices...


    so the question now becomes, under what circumstances would this kind of trade becomes possible?

    condition #1: the player that's going to be cut wants to go back and play for the team -- and therefore will take the minimun contract and come back
    condition #2: the cooperating team does not want to break promise to keep the right of this player -- and therefore will cut him as promised
    condition #3: the player does not mess up the cooperating team's cap situation for too long for them to become not worth it.


    now, obviously Juwan Howard does not satisfy these conditions very well. but there is one player possibly does... Finley.

    #1: mavs probably is still finley's first choice if they are willing to sign him back although I can't be 100% sure on this one
    #2: teams like NO won't mess up their reputation around the league for a 32 year old finley
    #3: although the contract is quite large, finley's contract is only for 2 more years (or is it 3?). If NO is planning to stay as a cheap team for the next 2 season and rely on draft picks, the timeline could fit.

    with this in mind, would this trade scenario becomes plausible?

    1. mavs trade finley and draft picks to NO.
    2. mavs trade non-garanteed contracts to NO so they can give NO the 3 million cash throw in enough times to pay for finley's buyout
    3. NO cuts finley under amnesity rule
    4. mavs resign finley with vet. min so they save the $51 mil luxTax money without having to lose him.



    my questions:
    Are this sequence of trades legal under CBA?
    Is there something I didn't remember that would make them illegal?
    Would this be charged as circumvanting the CBA and be disallowed?
    If they are legal, would this kind of loophole have any meaningful impact on the league FAs?
    Will there be any impact on rox FA signings?


    can some CBA and cap experts help me here? :)
     
  2. Uprising

    Uprising Member

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    Wow that is long....I'm still reading it.
     
  3. TigerBait

    TigerBait Member

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    Im speachless, dazed and most of all confused?? :confused:
     
  4. ty185

    ty185 Member

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    well, too be honest, I myself is speachless, dazed and most of all bored :D


    I just hope my first thread in more than 6 month is not THAT bad that ppl starts call my head for wasting everyone's time.

    well, just to be safe, apologies to all if this idea is really meaningless... :)
     
  5. m_cable

    m_cable Member

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    Let's just end this thread with this: The NBA has the authority to disallow any trades or signings that attempt to circumvent the Salary Cap. Signing a guy over and over again in order to trade him along with cash to another team is circumventing the cap. EOM.
     
  6. TigerBait

    TigerBait Member

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    *EDIT*

    One time, in science class, i was given a Lap report sorta like this with alot of confusing steps. I didn't really care or pay attention because I thought my teacher was stupid and didnt have a clue what he was talking about, much like you ty185. Just kidding, but seriously this is ridiculously crazy.
     
    #6 TigerBait, Jul 28, 2005
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2005
  7. steddinotayto

    steddinotayto Member

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    holy hell....
     
  8. tmac4prez

    tmac4prez Member

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    Isnt the amnesty rule 1 time per team per year?
     
  9. MrRolo

    MrRolo Member

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    Sura faints...
     
  10. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    There is a limit of $3 million cash that can be sent in a trade. If you then keep sending more and more cash along with a player/players that never play for or get paid by either team, it is pretty obvious that you are just sending more than the allowed amount of cash for the original trade. There is no way the league goes for this. It would be simpler to just trade Howard for someone with a similar contract, have both teams cut the player involved in the trade under the amnesty rule, and then resign them on their original teams for the vets minimum, but even that would probably be nixed as an illegal circumvention of the rule that you cannot resign the player you cut. Stern is not a r****d, if you are obviously circumventing the CBA, it is not going to happen.

    No, the amnesty rule is one time only and can only be done this offseason (by Oct 1st, but they are looking to move this up).
     
  11. Drexlerfan22

    Drexlerfan22 Member

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    Oh really?

    You do realize the one-time option to cut a player this year is ONLY to save the luxury tax hit, NOT paying out the player's salary, right? Meaning when NO cut Juwan in this scenario, they remain responsible for the 4 years left on his contract, at around $6.5 million per. Do you really believe he NBA would sit by and allow "No Name" to be traded and cut back and forth the TEN times (not just 3-5) he would have to be in order for NO to come out of this financially ahead?

    Three I would believe at least remotely possible, but TEN!? Come on.
     
  12. crums17

    crums17 Member

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    This is ridiculous. Why would you write something like this?
     
  13. tim562

    tim562 Member

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    Hey man, at least he warned us. Some people just spit crap out.
     
  14. AroundTheWorld

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    I don't think that is the type of expert you need...
     
  15. tim562

    tim562 Member

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    LMAO, that was wrong, LOL :p
     
  16. Mav-Hater

    Mav-Hater Contributing Member

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    Woa.............I know you have heard me say this before, but, put the crack pipe down and slowly step away from the keyboard. I want you in the clinic today.
     
  17. codell

    codell Member

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    [​IMG]

    I think I got it. How 'bout this? How 'bout this? We trade Jim Leyritz and Bernie Williams, for Barry Bonds, huh? Whadda ya think? That way you have Griffey and Bonds, in the same outfield! Now you got a team! Ha ha ha.
     
  18. sjackson0

    sjackson0 Member

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    YADA YADA YADA YADA
     
  19. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    You Yada'd over the best part.
     
  20. emjohn

    emjohn Member

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    1. I appreciate your disclaimer. I only wish more people would follow that example. Anyone flaming needs to cut back on their coffee.

    2. As said before, this would not be allowed by the league, and heavy sanctions would follow for an attempted cap circumvention. The wink-wink deal alone would get us in tons of hot water a la the Wolves and Joe Smith.

    3. Also as mentioned before, cutting Juwan Howard may not cost the Hornets anything in your scenario, but would tie up their salary cap for the length of his contract (as in all buyouts).

    4. The "no name" player and his agent probably would not take well to being used as pawns. Even if the player is a scrub, the agency representing them likely has higher-tier clients, and relations with the Rockets would be soured.

    Evan
     

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