War Sucks! But you need War before you have Peace.

Sad but true. This is too unthinkable for most of the folks here.

 

This post is crazy. Peaceful negotiation were never tried in the Civil War. Most historians (at least that I've heard) believe that if there was no war then the South would have merged back into the North eventually simply becuase slavery was unprofitable. Even if that's not the case the war didn't prove a damn thing about the failure of peaceful negotiations.

With the Vietnam War, how the hell does this prove anything? There was a war, we sent troops, then we withdrew and we hadn't changed a damn thing (other than kill a lot of people and drop tons of carcinogenic compounds in the forests of Vietnam).

It seems Ghandi resolved the hatred and lack of rights towards Indians pretty well without war, and I believe Kig Jr. did the same as well.

Now this is not to say that war isn't the most expedient and obvious solution in many cases, and I would even believe that at times it is necessary. But I think it is absolutely ludicrous to say that war is always the only option.

 

Yes this is nothing more than a shameless attempt to bring the topic back up but Rich, please tell me how the above post was true?

 

It was not shameless. The post had lain around for almost a day with no replies; I thought it deserved one. I was proud to do it and would do it again.

Either peace begets war or war begets peace... because we do certainly have both. History is fluid and ceaseless... at least for the near future, I hope.

 

I didn't comment originally, but Dylan is right. I'll agree all the way that sometimes war is sometimes necessary. However, the examples were terrible.

The original planners of Vietnam knew they probably wouldn't win, and didn't really care. They were simply interested in demonstrated the credibility of US strategic commitments in Asia. The message was: if we'll fight for this unimportant backwater, imagine what we'll do for you, our Allies? It's very strange: you can find actually quotes by the militeral higher-ups who initiated the way *stating* that they thought it was an exercise in futility from the beginning (some of them, not even ex post facto).

War occurs when one side makes a strategic miscalculation in negotations, generally. Or when one side is just crazy... but generally, negotiations work remarkably well. History is full of examples of successful negotiations.

 

By the way, I was referring to my second post when I mentioned the shameless attempt to bring it back to the top, not yours. And it was shameless.

 

Good, I didn't think <b>I</b> was being shameless!

 

<b><center>War is Peace</center></b>
<b><center>Freedom is Slavery</center></b>
<b><center>Ignorance is Strength</center></b>

 

Masters of War- BOb Dylan-1962


Come you masters of war
You that build all the guns
You that build the death planes
You that build the big bombs
You that hide behind walls
You that hide behind desks
I just want you to know
I can see through your masks

You that never done nothin'
But build to destroy
You play with my world
Like it's your little toy
You put a gun in my hand
And you hide from my eyes
And you turn and run farther
When the fast bullets fly

Like Judas of old
You lie and deceive
A world war can be won
You want me to believe
But I see through your eyes
And I see through your brain
Like I see through the water
That runs down my drain

You fasten the triggers
For the others to fire
Then you set back and watch
When the death count gets higher
You hide in your mansion
As young people's blood
Flows out of their bodies
And is buried in the mud

You've thrown the worst fear
That can ever be hurled
Fear to bring children
Into the world
For threatening my baby
Unborn and unnamed
You ain't worth the blood
That runs in your veins

How much do I know
To talk out of turn
You might say that I'm young
You might say I'm unlearned
But there's one thing I know
Though I'm younger than you
Even Jesus would never
Forgive what you do

Let me ask you one question
Is your money that good
Will it buy you forgiveness
Do you think that it could
I think you will find
When your death takes its toll
All the money you made
Will never buy back your soul

And I hope that you die
And your death'll come soon
I will follow your casket
In the pale afternoon
And I'll watch while you're lowered
Down to your deathbed
And I'll stand o'er your grave
'Til I'm sure that you're dead

 

WAR- Bob Marley-1976
Bob sets to music the speech made presented to the United Nations by H.I.M Haile Selassie(Jah Rastafari). Selassie's plea for human rights now created the most powerful anti-racist statement.





Until the philosophy which holds one race
Superior and another inferior
Is finally and permanently discredited and abandoned
Everywhere is war, me say war

That until there is no longer first class
And second class citizens of any nation
Until the colour of a man's skin
Is of no more significance than the colour of his eyes
Me say war

That until the basic human rights are equally
Guaranteed to all, without regard to race
Dis a war

That until that day
The dream of lasting peace, world citizenship
Rule of international morality
Will remain in but a fleeting illusion
To be pursued, but never attained
Now everywhere is war, war

And until the ignoble and unhappy regimes
That hold our brothers in Angola, in Mozambique,
South Africa sub-human bondage
Have been toppled, utterly destroyed
Well, everywhere is war, me say war

War in the east, war in the west
War up north, war down south
War, war, rumours of war

And until that day, the African continent
Will not know peace, we Africans will fight
We find it necessary and we know we shall win
As we are confident in the victory

Of good over evil, good over evil, good over evil
Good over evil, good over evil, good over evil

 

War is the only option for peace as long as people THINK that war is the only option for peace.....

It will be the only option until America's mindset, or the world's mindset, is truly open to other forms of negotiation other than bullets and bombs.

I don't think anyone can show me one instance in which war was the only way peace can be accomplished. Sacrifices must be made in any attempt to achieve peace, via war or otherwise, but the world mindset is not quite to the point to explore that. Maybe we'll all get there before Earth is turned into a fireball of missles and radiation. I hope so, but i'm not very optimistic.

Just my opinion, though

 

World War II ring a bell? How about Korea? World War I could have been avoided had everyone not been tied up in treaties, but...

As a rule, when someone attacks you there is no negotiation. As long as there are people out there who are willing to attack you, war will exist.

It's not going away anytime soon.

 

War cannot lead to complete peace, its just not possible.

If its not a total, and complete victory in which one side is annhilated, then the conflict will live on. That's what happens.

If it is a total and complete victory that results in annhilation, then that generally leaves one faction that 1)Is weakened by years of war, and 2) If allowed to recover will become too powerful for other nations to accept.

And there is more war.

 

I'll bet Japan and Germany just can't wait to bring down the Sears Tower...

 

I agree with Rich. War is the only answer in the Middle East. The problem is not the Israeli/Palestinian conflict though. I think the Temple of the Mount struggle between Jews and Muslims will cause the outbreak. When both sides have God on their side, nobody wins.

 

Correction - Arafat will start it. Has started it... Today, for the first time in decades, he insinuated that he is ready for martyrdom - and he said it in English... He typically only says that in Arabic to please his constituency. Saying it in English implies that he has come to a realization... He is ready for a last battle.

"I swear to God I will see the Palestinian state, as a martyr or while still alive." Those were his words. Since that Palestinian state isn't going to exist in his time - at least not with him at the helm...

 

Treeman, Arafat can't start anything by himself. He has no power. All he can do is cause more misery for the Palestinians.

When Arafat acts up, the Israelis will spank him. When the Jews make a move toward rebuilding the Temple, all hell will break loose, and 1.5 billion Muslims will be ready to fight.

 

Unification would probably have been relatively peaceful if not for the involvement of the US. The peasants really didn't care. And the elites in the South were incredibly weak.