I thought about posting this in the Hangout, and it may very well be Hangout worthy. I have two questions and a story. Question the First: I was reading Thomas Merton's 7 Storey Mountain about half a month ago and something struck me as being quite odd. He was a youth of around 15 IIRC, and was walking in Roma while on a vacation. He remembers walking by a Trappist Monastery and thinking, wow, I would like very much to become a Trappist Priest. The strange thing though, was that he wasn't Catholic, nor had he had any real exposure to Catholic ideas or culture. The idea quickly passed from his head. However, I was wondering, has the idea ever passed through any fellow posters minds, Catholic or Non-Catholic, or even non-believers? Question the Second: This one's a little more involved. When excactly did you know your vocation in life, beit to teach, or to work, or to get married to whomever it is you got married to. Was it a process of sacrifice? How much suffering did it take to choose? Are you happy with your choice? Story Time: So I'd like to share the story of how I discerned my vocation. To begin I should tell you the three factors I took into account. The first was to enter into the clergy after my Senior year of college. This idea was pretty high up in my mind, just because I thought I was good at it, and since I loved talking about the Church and its teachings, I thought what better way to do that than to become a priest. The second was the married life. This life seemed completely foriegn to me, I hadn't been in a real relationship since Sophmore year and the stress from that escapade had made me nearly want to kill myself. I wasn't good at focusing my love upon one person. The third was my desire to write. I knew that in some capacity, I would want to be in a position where I could create. This option seemed open to me in either vocation; but more so in the priestly duty, maybe as some monk tucked away from the world in a cell in Kentucky. Now for the kicker, the girl. She had been my good friend since the end of Freshman year, and as time went on she became my best friend in of all places, Rome. That was the begining of Sophmore year. Gradually, she fell in love with me; although I didn't neccessarily do the same with her, she was just my best friend. At least thats what I convinced myself to believe. And then I convinced myself to believe I was madly in love with her and we kissed. It was great, but I simply got afraid of the commitment because I knew if we started dating we would get married; we were just that close and kindred of spirit. So, I turned her away and said we should just be friends, which I really felt was the best thing. This led to a year of fights, family problems for her to the point that I couldn't understand or help her with. Suddenly, I was losing my best friend while mindlessly chasing after other girls. My senior year I had worried myself into a fit of shingles, mononucleosis, and dropped about 15 pounds. We weren't even on speaking terms anymore. Of course, I turned my thoughts to the clergy. If I didn't think it was the right thing to do date my friend, then the that could only mean that I was meant to be a priest. I'd walk over to the seminary that was on campus and pray and just contemplateif the religious life would be right for me. I talked to priests that were across the street in a Cistercian Abbey. To me, living the priestly life would provide everything I wanted. I'd be able to have someone else structure my life around prayer, fasting, contemplation, writing, and the Eucharist. What else could a guy want? It would be easy and holy. I would remain celibate for the rest of my life, and conquer my passions with reason. And then I had a great conversation with my friend whom had decided that the priesthood was not for him. He's quite honestly, the second smartest person I know besides the other guy who actually did join the monastery across the street. Anyways, I was surprised that he had turned the life down, but what he said struck so much more of a chord with me. He said that for him, the priestly life would be to easy. Their would be aspects of his character that he needed to work on to become a better person and become closer to God. He wasn't good at giving himself to another person wholly and completely for the glory of God. I immediately thought to myself, damn, that sounds like me. Here I had the most beautiful wonderful girl, who I had treated like complete ^*&$ for the past year, who wanted nothing more than to stand before God with me in the Catholic Tradition; and I was turning her away because it was too hard. I was willing to give my love to everyone else in unsubstatial amounts and to give her nothing. It was at that moment that I knew my vocation was to the married life. To have to become a dad and do all the things I dreaded. And so....out of pure luck, I landed a job in DC where I knew she was moving to after college. I drove all the way from Houston with my dad in my little Tercel, just to show up on her doorstep and ask for a date. And you know what? I couldn't be happier. Everything that has been hard has been great. And I plan to propose sometime soon, when I get enough money. Well that was my long and probably pretty boring love/vocation story. I'd love to hear other peoples'.
Should this be moved to the Hangout? I thought maybe since its a little bit controversial, that it should probably go in here; simply because religion is discussed. I really would love if this could go in the Hangout but I wanted to save a moderator the move if he didn't have to.
Exellent story. I wanted to be a lawyer from as early as I can remember. I enjoy public speaking...and I like helping people...so it seemed like a good fit. Flirted with other vocations...but none seemed to call me as strongly as the practice of law. Or at least what I understood the practice of law to be. Was interviewing with companies just before completing my undergrad degree, and literally was on the phone "accepting" an offer when I blurted out..."wait...i can't take this job...i want to go to law school...and i don't want to be 50 thinking, 'man, i really wish i had done that.'" Talked about it with my fiancee, and she supported me. So here I am. Sometimes I wonder if I'm where I'm supposed to be...but I think for now, anyway, that I am. The people I work with are amazing...amazing atmosphere. Our law practice is EXTREMELY unique. More like a family than anything else. But I do feel a call to ministry...I don't know if it's a call or just merely my desire...so I end up vounteering time with the youth ministry at my church. If the call gets stronger or clearer, I suppose I'll have to answer it. As for my wife...we were close friends...best friends...dating other people...completely platonic. At some point after we broke up with our respective girlfriend/boyfriend, it hit me that this is too rare. I found her attractive...and she was my best friend. Duh. We will have been married 7 years on June 21...and I can honestly say that marriage is better today than it was early on.
What importance would you place upon suffering, or even renouncing things that seem great. (Not saying renounce your wife or your job, but to what extent have you suffered and grown in these things?)
1. not at all in a serious way. When I was a kid of course in catholic school we heard the standard thing about calling, etc, but I never really felt particularly moved by any of it. Plus there was an unseemliness to many of the priests (much of which was later found out to be justified) that made the whole thing seem gross. 2. I don't know what it is at all, nor do I think I ever will. I think I would be bored senseless if I found the one thing I was supposed to do and just did it over and over again. I'll do anything that's interesting; I have a relatively comfortable white collar life of youthful excess in NYC but occassionally consider dropping everything I'm doing and joining the peace corps or some other NGO, not out of a sense of duty but to experience something new; as long as I acquire more knowledge or experiences I am relatively happy. When I feel stagnant I get depressed.
my faith in particular keeps me from getting to much of an inflated sense of self, though even saying that makes it seem untrue! i think that diminishes, in large measure, what others might feel to be suffering...or certainly what renouncing what the world would consider great.
See to an extent that's a great start. I don't know, I've been reading this Merton book, and before I had never really given much thought to mortification or the aesthetic life, but now its like, hmmm... what do I learn from not taking an extra piece of bacon, or, I think I'll walk to the Metro station instead of drive; i.e. how do we grow from giving up little things as well as big things....I think there has to be a certain level of sacrifice involved when one makes a vocation decision. For me it was, I'll never be able to say Mass, or listen to confessions and absolve them, I mean this is stuff I would love to do, but I don't know if I should....
mine is missing out, at least in full as a career, in youth ministry. at least for a while, anyway. also...the sacrifice of going to school right away...getting myself more into student debt....and then starting my own firm right away was not exactly easy...many sacrifices for that. definite financial sacrifices for the first couple of years, in particular.
1. I often get the feeling that it'd be cool to be a monk, though I'm only vaguely Catholic and not at all religious. But, there is something of escapism and cleanliness that is very appealing. I can understand that. 2. I don't think I've ever really made a vocational decision. Stuff happens, but I haven't really ever taken control and made a decision.
1.) I considered becoming a minister a few times, but I thought it would hamper my tang hunts. 2a.) I knew I was going into my current profession when I was in third grade. I've just always kinda known. 2b.) I knew I was going to marry my wife when we stayed up all night talking on the phone after our first date.
Question One - never crossed my mind. I think I would enjoy being a monk about as much as I would enjoy being a Laker fan, which is not at all. Question Two - I knew I wanted to be a musician since early teenagerhood, and I've spent all my time since making it happen, including working a day job to finance everything.
See but thats kind of the idea, growing by doing something that is painful, that involves a sacrifice, not saying you should be a monk or anything, just a different way of looking at life to where we're always constantly growing. I don't think the idea is neccessarilly religious even, but certainly helps religions.
It's a common line of thought that one can find in the tenets of many religions and philosophy. I believe in it to an extent.
twhy, that's a great story. You seem real concerned with sacrifice... as someone who's been married to the same woman since 1978, I can tell you that marriage is full of sacrifice. You give up part of yourself, as does your partner, to make a life together. And, as I am sure Max could tell you, there is tremendous sacrifice involved in having children. Try it and you'll see. It's worth every bit of it. And, if you look around and still have the time, you'll find sacrificing your time with your children to be the biggest sacrifice you can make. God will understand.
The only real calling I ever had...when I was a little kid...was to be a superhero. I think I;d come to grips with the fact that I had no otherwordly powers, per se, by the time I was 7 or 8, but I didn;t see why that would stop me. 'Loosely' modelled after Batman, or maybe the Green Hornet ( read one of my Dad's old books as a kid) my plan consisted of: A) Become a multi-millionaire, but keep it secret. B) Design secret headquarters for fighting crime, excercise, naps. C) Create alter-ego, with flashy costume. D) Fight crime in a selfless and never recognized battle against evil. About the age of 12, I revised my plan, and intended to revamp the U.N to create a special forces wing designed to combat terrorists, drug lords, hostage takers, etc. Called it U.N.I.C.O.R.N. ( United Nations Intelligence & Counter-terrorist Operations Response Network. Didn't so much need flashy costume, but was more brooding, selfless genuis leading team of highly trained and dedicted specialists who strike and then are gone... Needless to say, very little of my calling has been realized. Yet.
MadMax and twhy77, I've always felt that pride is such a sneaky thing. If I attempt to renounce anything for God, there is the inevitable pride in there that says I do have something to give up and I am important enough to do it for God. I don't know. That's what I always struggle. (That, in itself might give space for pride too.) Maybe that's why I try not to see my vocation as something I choose to suffer for God. I just sort of glide through life and meet my "vocation" as it comes. I am an educator and I have a strong sense of calling for it. But I didn't plan it from day one, although I knew I would be a good teacher early on. It just came and I hopped on. I see it as God guiding my life, giving me the opportunity to do what I was meant to do in life. Thanks for a good thread, twhy77. This is the first time in a very long while I came to the D&D and post. I saw your "advertisement" in the Feedback forum.
1. It would be philosophically impossible for me to do so. 2a. I originally (I am only starting when I was old enough to make real decisions, not when I was a kid) to be a lwayer. I was in debate and was near unstoppable, was being recruited, and so it just seemed natural. I eventually realized, though, that my personality would give me success in that field, but it would also most likely kill me or turn me into something I simply did not want to be. Second semester freshman year in college is when I knew what I was going to do. I grew up in academia, so it was easy, I found an area in which I not only excelled, but also one for which I had a real passion. Is it painful? Sure, graduate school sucks and debt adds up and all of it will end with a horrible job market and very little chance for a good job. Said good job will undoubtedly be low-paying as well. Regardless, I would get bored with just about anything else. I need the challenge, stimulation, and constant learning that goes on in academia. I love teaching and my ego insists upon leaving books behind by which I can be remembered, however shortly or infamously it works out. 2a. I knew I would marry my wife about a year into our relationship. Probably sooner, but I am cautious and would not consider it sooner. We got married after a bit over three years. Painful? Yes, every day. My wife is, uh, difficult. Seriously, the beginning required some work for various reasons, but love is all that matters in my mind. We are happy, we enjoy each other, and I have a great deal of respect for her and her mind. Anything is worth it.
Do all people in the humanities follow an index of "2a" with another indexed item of "2a"? I'm not sure that would fly in the sciences. As for question #2, I would have to say I am always seeking my true calling, though I've experienced some satisfaction and success in a couple of different detours at this point. I most wanted to be a philosopher or a cultural anthropologist, but I went first with what came easiest: physics.
Uh, yes...it reflects our anti-conformist minds and free spirits. It symoblizes a mind informed by Barthes and Derrida and a usage of language to confuse, not inform. Boooooooooooo! Now I can't edit it and must resign myself to shame.
