I don't respond much in threads about race anymore but I thought these comments were interesting on several fronts. First of all I think they are an example of how american blacks aren't just viewed negatively in America. Secondly, I think it is a very honest opinion of why illegal immigration is such a problem, that no one else will do these jobs. But I guess that secret has been out of the bag for while now. Link Mexican leader criticized for comment on blacks Sunday, May 15, 2005 Posted: 9:08 AM EDT (1308 GMT) (CNN) -- The Rev. Jesse Jackson on Saturday criticized Mexican President Vicente Fox's comment that Mexican immigrants to the United States take jobs "that not even blacks want to do." Jackson called the remark "a spurious comparison" with "ominous racial overtones." The Mexican president's office issued a statement late Saturday disputing the negative interpretation of his comments, saying Fox has "enormous respect to minorities whatever their racial, ethnic, or religious origin may be." A Mexican official defended Fox later in the day, saying his description was not meant as an insult. "The president didn't make a declaration in the racist sense; of course there are those who interpret it in that way," Foreign Relations Secretary Luis Derbez told a reporter in the Mexican state of Jalisco. According to Derbez, Fox was making the point that "Mexican migrants are making great contributions in the United States and that their role is a positive role." "They've been able to improve the conditions of life not just for themselves but also for the communities in which they settle and, by the same token, the president made the comment in this context to say that a large quantity of the jobs taken by Mexicans are jobs that in the U.S. society aren't being filled." "I think that what we have to be very clear about is that the statement made by the president was in no way motivated by racism." 'Most poor Americans are ... white' But Jackson told CNN in a telephone interview that Fox "should not confuse the need for sound legal immigration policy between the two countries, which is important, and the border disputes between the two countries, with a spurious comparison." "The comparison is diversionary from the issue of a workable immigration policy between the U.S. and Mexico." Jackson, who said he has never met Fox, planned to call the Mexican president. Fox made the controversial comment Friday to a group of Texas businessmen meeting in Mexico. He criticized recent steps the United States has taken that the Bush administration said were aimed at curbing illegal immigration. Fox discussed the role that many Mexican immigrants occupy in the U.S. economy. Speaking in Spanish, he said, "There is no doubt that Mexicans, filled with dignity, willingness and ability to work, are doing jobs that not even blacks want to do there in the United States." A State Department spokesman who asked not to be named, read CNN a statement saying, "That level of dialogue doesn't merit comment." The spokesman also said, "President Bush's commitment to immigration reform that is rational, legal, common sense, decent and compassionate is well-documented." Jackson said he has worked "for the citizenship rights of immigrants and Mexican Americans" and wants steps taken to avoid making the United States "hostile toward immigration policy." He said Fox's comment about "blacks" seemed to be about a stereotype. "Most poor Americans are not black, they're white," he added. But Jackson stopped short of saying Fox should apologize. "I don't know about that," he said, adding that the comment was "unwitting, unnecessary, and inappropriate."
some of the jobs that illegal immigrate are doing most black americans will do . Just like any other american they want fair wages not the pennies that the immigrates are getting.
Of course that is a backhanded compliments to Mexican immigrants. Fox is buying into the stereotype that Blacks are the lowest of the low of America so if he says that Mexicans are willing to take jobs that even they won't do what does that say about Mexicans? Be careful how you play with stereotypes.
ugh. i'm going to monterrey, mexico for a few days this week also to chill with a few people tues thru fri morning. hate this kinda crap.
Very stupid comment. I don't think he's racist, but maybe that reflects the fact that there are hardly any blacks in Mexico and there is some ignorance there. The real reason he is mad, of course, is that he will have to deal with these poor workers if America doesn't take them. Unfortunately, Fox has been blocked in his attempts to free up the Mexican economy.
I don't see any difference between this and outsourcing. If it's good for the economy to ship IT jobs overseas for 1/10 the cost, then it's also good to have illegal immigrants do work here for 1/10 the cost.
let's just be honest outsouring has not helped the economy at all the only people that it's helping a other countries and there economy not America .
Cheap immigrant labor is exactly what has allowed the US to become a super power. It was the basis for the great public works projects in the late 1800's thu 1930's and it is the basis for the large private development going on now. It is a testament to our nation that people are willing to come here willingly knowing that their sacrifice would provide a better life for their children. The black immigration to this country on the otherhand was not voluntary. Slave were not willing laborers. And for much of the last 200 years there has been a concious effort to discriminate against blacks. I think Vincete's racist remark was just a reflection of the outside percetion of America that has held over from that. He's not a bad guy for saying it, we in America just need to make sure his perception is no longer the truth. But..Capital will always exploit labor until labor exercises the power of their masses. Nothing new there.
If you can pay your employees less to do the same job, that helps your company. Outsourcing helps everybody except the person replaced by someone who was willing to do the job for less.
One common misconception is that all the jobs these immigrants are doing are minimum wage or below jobs. Some of these workers are skilled laborers such as carpenters who make a decent wages but they just do the job for less than the American workers. Not all the jobs immigrants take are jobs people won't do.
That's true but... that's only a small part of the big picture. C'mon man, be honest with yourself. Immigrants work for less, as you said, and immigrants also do many difficult jobs...for less. BTW, a carpenter in Houston, TX is a hard job because you are working outdoors. Also, I spoke with one carpenter who lamented about days past. He said you used to have to do a long apprentiship and that is no more. Now, anybody can become a carpenter very quickly. So yes, a carpenter is a "skill" but even that is watered down because what developer would pay full price when they can pay 1/2 price but for lesser quality. The developer doesn't care about qaulity.
Pinche Mexican Vicente Fox! What he said was true however he forgot, white trash, asians, jews and smelly euros, none of whom are hard ass workers as Mexicans are! Damn Right he is!!!!
Ultimately, I think outsourcing will eliminate the middle class. Really, if you think about it, what white collar job can't be outsourced? The only jobs I can think of are being an executive, a doctor, a real estate agent, or a shop/restaurant owner. Everything else requiring laboratory/engineering facilities, computer work or just paper work can be outsourced. It might take a couple years, but I think you'll start seeing a TON of jobs of all types going to other countries. If anyone has a good idea for a product, I'd strongly advise them to look into starting their own company. Either you outsource or you get outsourced.
Every job can be outsourced that doesn't require someone to be there. However, for jobs such as Investment Bankers, Busines Analyst, Design Engineers, and top programmers, and any jobs that require substantial knowledge that are more than just something from the books, you would want to hire people that can do that very well. And from what I've heard, a lot of those jobs, that might require people that's trully good at them to do, are actually having pretty high wages. Didn't some post that a New Dehli programmer makes 30k a while back? Not as high as some one here, but it shows how the demand will cause a rise in salaries high enought that sometimes it's not a good job to outsource. Even for more "grunt" jobs, big companies want to make sure they hirer the right people even in other countries. My friend got a offer for 3k per month test engineer job from IBM in Beijing post graduation (he just graduated from UT). If you factor in the fact that it's not subject to tax and his low living expenses, he probably is gonna have more spending money than me every month. Heck I'm jealous of his situation.
What will have to happen eventually is a labor market correction in America. Americans are going to need to start working for the same pay that the foreign workers are getting, which will make outsourcing unappealing.
We should create a new classification by decriminalizing illegal immigration, taxing the illegals productivity, putting a 5 year entitlement trust seperate from citizens, and affixing them a static time limit for naturalization. It would officially admit that they're second class citizens, but lay promise and wages better than the social limbo they're in now. Plus, the conservatives can deport the non-productive immigrants without public disapproval.
You guys are falsely assuming that the US job market is a zero sum game. As long as the country continues to be the innovation leader in the world, as it clearly is right now, new jobs will be created to fill in the ones lost to outsourcing. Outsourcing allows companies to more efficiently allocate capital to innovation purposes that was previously spent on low value-add activities that have now been outsourced. These protectionist views that outsourcing is the end of the US are off base. We've been through this before - During the 80s it was thought that Japan would ruin our economy due to stealing all the manufacturing jobs. Later the maquiladoras in Mexico were a threat. The economy has survived both of these threats and it currently humming along strong right now. Outsourcing is a politically inspired attempt to use demagoguery in a protectionist way to pull in votes. Nothing more.
Outsourcing will be neccessary once the boomers retire. The US government will lose 50% of its workforce in the next 10 years to retirement. It's a great time for the youngins to get their MBAs....
