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Vermont Wants to Secede

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout' started by Lil Pun, Jun 4, 2007.

  1. Lil Pun

    Lil Pun Member

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    Vermont Secession Movement Gains Traction

    MONTPELIER, Vt. - At Riverwalk Records, the all-vinyl music store just down the street from the state Capitol, the black "US Out of Vt.!" T-shirts are among the hottest sellers.

    But to some people in Vermont, the idea is bigger than a $20 novelty. They want Vermont to secede from the United States — peacefully, of course.

    Disillusioned by what they call an empire about to fall, a small cadre of writers and academics hopes to put the question before citizens in March. Eventually, they want to persuade state lawmakers to declare independence, returning Vermont to the status it held from 1777 to 1791.

    Neither the state nor the U.S. Constitution explicitly forbids secession, but few people think it is politically viable.

    "I always thought the Civil War settled that," said Russell Wheeler, a constitutional law expert at the Brookings Institution in Washington, D.C. If Vermont fought and won a war with the federal government, "then you could say Vermont proved the point. But that's not going to happen."

    Still, the idea has found plenty of sympathetic ears in Vermont, a left-leaning state that said yes to civil unions, no to slavery (before any other) and last year elected a socialist to the U.S. Senate.

    Supporters have published a "Green Mountain Manifesto" subtitled "Why and How Tiny Vermont Might Help Save America From Itself by Seceding from the Union."

    In 2005, about 300 people turned out for a secession convention in the Statehouse, and plans for a second one are in the works. A poll this year by the University of Vermont's Center for Rural Studies found that 13 percent of those surveyed support secession, up from 8 percent a year before.

    "The argument for secession is that the U.S. has become an empire that is essentially ungovernable — it's too big, it's too corrupt and it no longer serves the needs of its citizens," said Rob Williams, editor of Vermont Commons, a quarterly newspaper dedicated to secession.

    "We have electoral fraud, rampant corporate corruption, a culture of militarism and war," Williams said. "If you care about democracy and self-governance and any kind of representative system, the only constitutional way to preserve what's left of the Republic is to peaceably take apart the empire."

    Vermont, which was historically conservative, has evolved into one of the nation's most liberal states since the latter part of the 20th century, a tie-dyed bastion of countercultural dissent and New England self-reliance where folks wear their hearts — and their anti-war stickers — on their Subaru station wagon bumpers.

    Secession movements have a long history. Key West, Fla., staged a mock secession from America in the 1980s. In Vermont, the town of Killington tried to break away and join New Hampshire in 2004, and Hawaii, Alaska, New Hampshire, South Carolina, and Texas all have some form of secession organizations today.

    The Vermont movement has been simmering for years but gained new traction because of the
    Iraq war, rising oil prices and the formation of several pro-secession groups.

    Secession supporters hope to have the question considered in March on Town Meeting Day, when voters gather to discuss state and local issues.

    Thomas Naylor, 70, a retired Duke University economics professor and author, wrote the manifesto and founded a secession group called Second Vermont Republic.

    His 112-page manifesto contains little explanation of how Vermont would make do without federal aid for security, education and social programs. Some in the movement foresee a Vermont with its own currency and passports, for example, and some form of representative government formed once the secession has taken place.

    Frank Bryan, a professor at the University of Vermont who has championed the cause for years, said the cachet of secession would make the new republic a magnet.

    "People would obviously relish coming to the Republic of Vermont, the Switzerland of North America," he said. "Christ, you couldn't keep them away."

    The Middlebury Institute, a Cold Spring, N.Y., think tank, hosted a North American Separatist Convention last fall in Burlington that drew representatives from 16 organizations. The group is co-sponsoring another conference in October in Chattanooga, Tenn.

    Of course, skeptics abound.

    "It doesn't make economic sense, it doesn't make political sense, it doesn't make historical sense. Other than that, it's a good idea," said Paul Gillies, a lawyer and Vermont historian.

    For now, the would-be secessionists are hoping to draw enough support to get the question on Town Meeting Day agendas.

    "We're normal human beings," said Williams, 39, a history professor at Champlain College. "But we're serious about this. We want people in Vermont to think about the options going forward. Do you want to stay in an empire that's in deep trouble?"
     
  2. DonkeyMagic

    DonkeyMagic Member
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  3. dntrwl

    dntrwl Member

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    what is a Vermont?
     
  4. WhoMikeJames

    WhoMikeJames Member

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    I don't even know what the capital of Vermont is, or even a city in Vermont...
     
  5. Ottomaton

    Ottomaton Member
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    Montpelier

    Obviously you weren't paying attention in the third grade.

    The Republic of Vermont would be completely landlocked and surrounded by the USA. Not exactly a recipe for great independence.
     
  6. pirc1

    pirc1 Member

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    Maybe the states should form two nations, the blue USA and the red USA. Where would states like Ohio, Florida go? Where would my Indiana go? :p
     
  7. hotballa

    hotballa Contributing Member

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    well if they secede, at least it'll bring down the national child abuse rates.
     
  8. basso

    basso Member
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    well, yes, if you assume Quebec is a part of the USA...
     
  9. hotballa

    hotballa Contributing Member

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    Thats good news for Montreal, a brand new pipeline of future strippers from all the abused kids in Vermont.
     
  10. Saint Louis

    Saint Louis Member

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    Maybe we can swap Vermont for Nova Scotia. We might have to throw in a draft pick or some cash though to sweeten the deal.
     
  11. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
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    premier bush should use his wrath of god powers and smite them with locusts.
     
  12. TreeRollins

    TreeRollins Member

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    They would suffer the same fate as Petoria.
     
  13. weslinder

    weslinder Member

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    Vermont for Prince Edward Island. Straight up.
     
  14. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    They are pretty tough up there.

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  15. IROC it

    IROC it Member

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    As long as Texas does it too, I'd be fine with it. :rolleyes:
     
  16. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    I'd rather Texas use its constitutional right to divide itself up into as many as 5 separate states. I want a state called Central Texas, with Austin as the capitol. Craddick, Dewhurst and Perry, along with 2/3 of the Lege, can go **** themselves! We'll have a merry moderate to liberal party goin' in Austin and the surrounding area. Party boats for everyone on the lake! Shut down half of Downtown for a giant multi-block party in celebration for those who can't swim! Hurray! Central Texas Forever! The liberal areas of Houston can secede from Coastal Texas and join the party! :cool:



    D&D. Replicant Postcards from the Lege.
     
  17. thegary

    thegary Member

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    vermont rules. for those that haven't been, it's a bit like the texas hill country on steroids.
     
  18. DonkeyMagic

    DonkeyMagic Member
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    that rap is hilarious
     
  19. Grizzled

    Grizzled Member

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    No deal. A large percentage of Nova Scotians are descended from United Empire Loyalists, btw, and I don’t see them wanting to join up with the lawless rebels they moved away from. ;)

    It sounds like Vermont might well be happier in the Canadian family, though. They seem to be more inline with Canadian sensibilities. They’d get instant universal health care and subsidised education for starters. I think it would have to be an amicable split with the US for us to take them, though. We have had our own issues with separatists and the US has largely not interfered in those issues, so I think we’d very much like to maintain that precedent. If they wanted to leave and the US was willing to let them go, however, I’d take them. I love Vermont. Heck, I’d take all of New England. :)
     
  20. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    I'd give it to you, maybe in trade for the Yukon?
     

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