First of all, I think he is a very good coach. Despite his constant negative attitude (which gets annoying) I think he knows what he's doing for the most part. However, he's got this mindset of "8 man rotation" and absolutely refuses to deviate from it. For the playoffs I can understand that, but for the regular season I think it is not only bad for the team in that it wears players down, but it also hinders the development of younger players. Kirk Snyder was STARTING at the beginning of the year. He breaks his wrist and now can't crack the lineup b/c Bonzi has taken his spot? WHY? Why not use both of them. Last time I checked they are both on OUR team and both bring different qualities to the court. Steve Novak pretty much rots on the bench. VSpan was pretty much a waste of an acquisition. I just don't get it. Is he just not that good of a coach to be able to work these guys in or teach them how to play? There is a reason you have 12 players on your active roster, and why you don't use them all (especially in the regular season) really bothers me. This is leaving quality players on the bench all year. Our team is at least 10 deep (when healthy): Yao/Deke Howard/Hayes/Novak Battier/Wells Tmac/Snyder Rafer/Head/JL3/Vspan I don't see anyone out of those 13 that can't contribute in some way. Why he just refuses to play some of them is beyond me... And if there are just a few players he doesn't like (VSpan, Novak, JL3) at least try to trade them for someone he does like rather than let them rot on the bench. We could use another backup center and veteran backup PG.
There's 48 minutes in a game. No teams play with a 12 man rotation. Even a 10 man rotation is rare among good teams...and the rockets have a surplus of swingmen and no backup point or center. His rotation is longer than phoenix's. Next thread.
the bulk of those players you named that are not playing are not only rookies or young players. (V-span, lucas, novak) They highest pick of them all was Novak who was a second rounder, lucas was undrafted and is making small amounts of progress, and v-span is struggling in his transition... Give the rooks a minutes to adjust to the league the majority of rookies don't get alot of burn, espeically on a van gundy team. Name one other team that plays at least 10 guys a night... Memphis used to do it under Hubie Brown, but now they are back to a smaller rotation.
either this is a subtle way to say free span and novak, which if it is, not really subtle at all, since many have already tried this route, or you are misinformed about how teams work. how many teams have 10 man rotations?
A lot of teams that are not deep play with shorter rotations. And unfortunately, the only positions where we have too many bodies are the 2 and 3. I like Snyder's hustle as well and he does deserve to play, but at who's expense? Shane/Tmac play the 3, Luther, Bonzi play the two (with Bonzi or TMac also playing the 2/3 when it suits us) Novak is terrible right now. Bad defender, weak, barely knows the plays and is a below average outside shooter (at least in games). Plus, we win a lot of games with our rotation. Pointless thread
it is very common for the best coaches in college and the nba to circle the wagons around an 8-man rotation. relax dude. like college coaches, JVG and others treat every year as unique. They think only about preparing for March, April, May and June. Is there any other way to coach? many college coaches won't play freshmen who haven't proven themselves by the time conference game season starts in January. They will wait for those freshman to become sophmores and not give it a second thought. why is that wrong? btw: bonzi didn't take Snyder's minutes...Head did.
So many of you JVG haters will eat crow come June. We have a dam good shot of going into All Star weekend with the third, that's right the third best record in the NBA with all the injuries we have had. 8 man rotation (nine when we need deke) is what is going to win you a championship not 10 or 11. Yao Hayes Battier T-Mac Alston Wells, Head, Howard (Deke will see some time) Snyder is a quality player who might get some time depending on the match up. JL111, Padgett, Novak might get a few minutes vs PHX but all in all those eight plus some min from Deke is what we need.
The reason your argument is, IMO, weak is because there's absolutely no way we have a better record right now with a different rotation, a different coach, etc.... Absolutely no one can claim that we would have had more wins doing things a different way because absolutely no one believed we could have this many wins taking into consideration our injury problems.
Well, as everyone else has said, the NBA just is not a league which employs coaches who are career-suicidal enough, for the most part, to give a lot of minutes to rookies and inexperienced players, especially when they are winning big with veterans, and especially when in the middle of a very tight and very competitive playoff race. JVG is no different. That said, it probably would not be a bad thing for JVG to loosen the apron-strings just a LITTLE bit when we have a commanding lead late in games. So what if we end up winning by 15 instead of 25? It's not that he's too stubborn, it just takes him longer than us to believe a lead is safe, even a big lead. Where we, as fans, see the Rox generating a 20+point lead with, say, 8 minutes to go in the game, we think to ourselves, 'Ok, we have a big lead, now JVG can let the youngsters into the game with enough time to get some solid work in a real game, and let these old guys rest their tired old bones.' To me, that does not seem all that unreasonable; but then again, I am not an NBA coach. JVG apparently thinks differently. He cares only about winning, very focused, very here-and-now. That's good for winning in the short-term, but I am not sure if it is the best for the franchise long-term. Jvg sees a 20+point lead early in the 4th, and he is worrying about how the other team could charge back into the game and steal it. So he keeps his foot on the gas until there is absolutely no doubt in his mind - like Quint going full-throttle while dragging that darn shark, even with smoke billowing out of the engines. Anyway, I think that is what frustrates people - not that JVG won't work the young guys into his 'rotation', but that he doesn't get the guys some work sooner in the games in which it seems that he could get them in there more and sooner. So I would hesitate to call JVG 'stubborn'. He is just unwilling to take what he considers to be dangerous risks. Could this trait r****d or delay the development of some of our young guys? Probably, but if so, not by a whole lot, I would wager. We fans who just want to see the new guys more should just learn to live with the fact that JVG is not going to risk a loss just to try to please a small group of rabid fans who want to see Novak and V-Span more.
1 star... this isnt middle school league where every kids get to play and stay happy.. this is professional league, if u suck, ur outta shape, ur away from team too long,then sorry...speaking of Novak, Phil didnt play andrew Bynum in his rookie year, also Andrew has tons more potential than Novak, argue with that
the only guys that should see the court in any type of situation that somewhat matter is. tmac, yao, rafer, howard, luther, battier, bonzi, cap'n kirk, deke, hayes.
I don't have problems with an 8 man rotation, except against certain teams such as Phoenix and Dallas that cause so much energy to be expended with good ball movement and up and down court action. I think an 8 man rotation is fine for the playoffs most of the time but a great coach should be willing to see when his preferred matchups are out of gas and he needs to give a 5 minute blow to somebody and dig down to 9 or 10 in his rotation to do it. Also, playing with foul trouble could cause a coach to have to dig to 9 or 10. You go against a Shaq or Duncan and your two primary bigs get in foul trouble, you may be better off to play your third big who is 9 or 10 instead of trying to go with your top 8 whenever you don't have matchups that make sense.
i agree, but you are making a semantics argument wrt what a "rotation" means. I don't think JVG disagrees with you. He just mean "rotation" has the plan entering the game. Doesn't mean 9-10 guys won't see play...certainly in the playoffs. I mean, I could see Head dropping to under 12 mpg against the Lakers in a 7-game series, if we need Snyder to guard Kobe....for instance.
Unless Novak bulks up and gets stronger, he has no future in the PF position, maybe against the slower SF players like the Kyle Korvers or Wally Sczerbiaks of the world will he get minutes. JVG is a defensive coach who's teams guard the interior, I don't think Novak can push others around nor the ballhawk mentality to knock or strip the ball when it's available. I'm not just talking about this year, I'm talking about for the rest of his career, Novak needs to show he can box out to get a rebound, cannot be pushed in when being posted up, etc. That guy is too much of a defensive liability to be ever considered a rotation player in a JVG system. My question is why have both Padgett and Novak, they are both the same type of player, we should have used the roster spot on one of them for a more physical big. WHat was our options back in training camp, I need to go back and research... And we screwed up royally on the backup PG issue, I think JVG thought Luther could do it in a pinch and JLIII or Vspan could surprise them. Well all 3 options bombed...Vspan probably has the most promise but being a foul machine and a turnover machine ain't gonna cut it for JVG.
I guess my main complaint is that I want to see Snyder on the floor. He is by far the most athletic player on our team. He brings intensity, good defense, can take it to the hole and shoot decent. He was playing well before he got hurt. And it's complete BS to forget about the guy just b/c fat Bonzi decided he wanted to play. When Yao comes back we don't need Bonzi anymore. In fact I'd be fine trading him now.
don't worry, you'll see him more often as long as he's healthy, especially if we play against more athletic teams like suns, blazers...
Ill name 5 teams that consistently play 9-10 players during the regular season. This is based on playing 37+ games with 10+ min. Spurs: Duncan, ginobli, parker, finley, horry, elson, oberto, barry, bowen, udrih Mavs: Dirk, Terry, Howard, Dampier, Stackhouse, Harris, George, Buckner, Diop, Johnson Lakers: Bryant, Odom, Parker, Bynum, Radman, Cook, Evans, Walton, Farmar, Turiaf, Vujacic Suns: Nash, Amare, Marion, Bell, Banks, Barbosa, Diaw, Jones, Thomas Pistons: Hamilton, Wallace, Billups, Prince, Webber, Mohammed, Delfino, Mcdyess, Murray The regular season is where you play 9-10 players. The playoffs is where you play 8. You guys might say we are doing fine now and how can we have a better record? Well, increasing your rotation does now show in the W-L column until the playoffs, when the players are not as tired as they could be. Fortunately, its not going to affect tmac or yao due to their injury and taking off quite a few 4th quarters due to blowouts. If our role players suddenly come up short on their shots in the playoffs, you will know why.
