Four children shot dead in Iraq: witnesses Four schoolchildren have been killed by gunfire in Baghdad, shortly after a roadside bomb ripped through a US military vehicle, witnesses said. Some witnesses said the children, all aged around 12, were shot dead by US troops who had opened fire randomly after the blast on Canal Street in eastern Baghdad. At least five other people were wounded. The children had left their nearby school to look at the burning Humvee, the witnesses said. Children and some passersby were "celebrating" the attack near the vehicle when the deadly shots were fired. The US military had no immediate word on the incident. "I saw a child lying on the street with a bullet hole in his neck and another in his side," said a driver who witnessed the incident. "He had his schoolbag on his back. Some 15 minutes later his relatives came and took his body away." A nearby hospital confirmed receiving the bodies of four children with gunshot wounds. The targeted Humvee was part of a military convoy driving through the street. Two soldiers in the Humvee were evacuated from the scene by military medics, they said. Meanwhile, Katyusha rockets have hit a hospital, a hotel and a police facility in the northern Iraqi city of Mosul, killing two hospital and two hotel workers and wounding 13 people, police said. They said a rocket slammed into the Salam (Peace) Hospital in the town, 390 kilometres north of Baghdad, killing two women staff and wounding 10 other people. Less than an hour later, a second rocket hit Ashour Hotel in the city centre, causing extensive damage and wounding three people. Two of the wounded, both hotel workers, died shortly afterwards in hospital. A third rocket struck a police vehicle maintenance department next to police headquarters in southern Mosul's Wadi Hajar district, wounding two policemen. US troops later shot at three gunmen in a car who fired at a patrol in the city, killing one of the attackers, while the other two fled, police at the scene said. American troops found two assault rifles and a grenade launcher in their car, witnesses said. A roadside bomb has killed one US soldier and wounded others in Baghdad, a US spokesman said. Brigadier-General Mark Kimmitt told a news conference that the bomb disabled a Humvee military car in a Baghdad street. He gave no figures on wounded soldiers. Iraqi witnesses said US forces on the scene had opened fire indiscriminately after the attack, killing four people and wounding at least eight. Oil halt And the bulk of Iraq's oil exports will be halted for at least two days following attempted boat attacks on the country's main southern offshore terminal. Exports from the main Al-Basra Oil Terminal were stopped because of a power cut and it would take "at least two days" to resume, Dominic d'Angelo, spokesman for the coalition in Basra, said. He said about 1.6 million barrels per day are loaded through this terminal, which based on figures provided by the oil ministry would represent the bulk of Iraq's daily oil exports of 1.9 million bpd. -- Reuters/AFP link
Who are these witnesses?...Did they see what they wanted to see?...It has been cited by the left that the validity of prior witness reports surrounding the scope of WMD and the ilk are to be questioned...If the Iraqis are the witnesses in the area, it is only logical to surmise the possibility that their actions may be in cohoots with the insurgents due to proximity...I can't take this piece as substantiated. Look, I am fairly certain that the results of this could have taken place...But the dangers are inherent, and anytime a person or child places themselves in a combatant zone, namely a burning American humvee and to stand next to it and "celebrate", you might expect some 62 grain, SS109 bullets to begin the incapacitating process to your person...
I agree that we shouldn't label this as definite confirmed civilian casualties caused by American fire, just based on this alone, but... The witnesses that lied regarding WMD, all had something to gain by their lies, and are now working for U.S. corporations, on the governing council etc. I'm not sure what these witnesses have to gain. As to celebrating near burning vehicles, you and I might immediately recognize this as risky, it's wrong to expect children to understand and fully comprehend the dangers in the same way that adults do.
How about a ratcheting up of anti-American sentiment? It is entirely possible that these children were murdered by the insurgents seeking to pin it on the US for the aforementioned reason. They've proven a willingness to kill just about anybody, antime, anywhere for their purposes...
In case you missed it, celebrating some damage done to an occupying army, doesn't really warrant death, especially for children.
Is there any proof for this at all? I'd be willing to consider it, but I've never seen any proof or anyone advancing this theory before now.
You've claimed to support our troops, no? Now we have an incident where some witnesses claim the children were shot by our troops, while early reports from the scene also indicate shots were fired by snipers at our troops which may have hit the children. But the thread title is 'US Soldiers Kill 4 More Innocent Children'? That's how you support our troops? Go to hell.
Where was the report of witnesses talking about snipers? I didn't see any of that in the article, only in giddy's unsupported commentary.
Of course it doesn't warrant the death to the children, but these children have no business getting into the fire...Where are the supervisory/parental controls?...We are trying to deal with terroristic insurgents who want no business with the pending future of Iraq and the additions of democratic processes, rights and ideals,...The future of Iraq as envisioned by us and the Iraqi council is a much, much, much better Iraq than before, and those that are combatant to this are in line with the terroristic past of Iraq.... When people are willing or allowed to run amock in clearly defined fighting areas this sort of thing could easily happen (if it truly happened this way)...children, unfortunately included...
This thread title is so typical of the liberal filth that is put out there these days. This sounds like something John Forbes Kerry would say back in the early 70's.
There's no proof EITHER WAY. It's just that some of of choose to give the troops the benefit of the doubt considering what they're doing for us over there. Others just assume they're a bunch of baby killers...
I am sure that Glynch is getting ready to post this, but I thought I'd save him the trouble. Link: http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/26/international/middleeast/26ATTA.html?pagewanted=print&position= April 26, 2004 Attack in Iraq: Many Versions, Obscure Truth By IAN FISHER AGHDAD, Iraq, April 25 — A roadside bomb killed a young American soldier on Sunday morning inside this city, the kind of attack so common in this war that it no longer makes headlines. After he was evacuated, his Humvee was set on fire. Children rushed out of school to celebrate the attack — a reaction that until the most recent spike of rage and violence here was almost unheard of inside the capital. American soldiers began shooting at rooftop snipers. At least one Iraqi, a teenager whose name was given by neighbors as Hassan Fallah, was killed in the cross-fire. Those details, at least, seem certain enough. "Take pictures and show this to the world!" one angry Iraqi driver, passing by the Humvee after it had been reduced to blistered paint and cold ash, yelled to a reporter. Presumably the Iraqi meant, "Tell the truth." But determining the truth of what happened in incidents like this one is becoming increasingly difficult. Reality, at this pivotal moment for the Americans in Iraq, is a kaleidoscope of versions. Iraqi witnesses said not one child, but four, possibly five, had been killed. The American military had no count. But according to the military, gunmen fired on the soldiers from rooftops, provoking return fire. No Iraqi witness mentioned that. Several Iraqis there did say the children had been incited to jump around the burning Humvee by a cameraman for Al Arabiya, an Arab news channel, which American officials say is guilty of stoking a much broader anti-Americanism among viewers around the Arab world. The station denies that its cameraman did anything but film. In recent weeks, it has become harder for Western reporters to sift through conflicting accounts of incidents like this one. They venture outside only briefly. Many are afraid, mostly ensconced in hotels and houses protected by huge concrete blast walls, because of the recent wave of kidnappings and killings of foreigners. (And this reporter, who arrived at the attack scene about six hours afterward, stayed only about 45 minutes — far less than he might have several months ago.) Here are several accounts of the attack, relatively small in itself, as the American military braces for possibly large-scale fighting — and more civilian casualties — in the standoff cities of Najaf and Falluja. Still, the contradictory versions of what happened seem revealing about the thickening fog of this war. Qusay Faisal, 19, who said he had been standing across the Canal highway in the Amana neighborhood of northeastern Baghdad, said he had seen four American Humvees drive by on the other side. He said a friend, Khalid, about 30, had run up to them and fired a rocket-propelled grenade that hit one Humvee. Soldiers, he said, took wounded comrades from the crippled Humvee, while some soldiers from the other Humvees dismounted and began firing. Khalid, escaping across a bridge over a sewage canal, was struck, collapsed in the dirt of the median and died, Mr. Faisal said, pointing to dusty spatters of blood. He said only one other youth, Hussein, had been shot by the American bullets, wounded in the leg. Mr. Faisal said he saw no one else dead. "The Americans did a good thing when they captured Saddam Hussein," Mr. Faisal said. "But why do they kill children? Before, I liked the Americans, but now I hate them." Mr. Faisal also admitted that he had been drinking when the attack happened. No one else saw what he said he had seen. Across the highway, Jabal Shanoon Hussain, 42, a sergeant at the fire station there, said he had heard a huge explosion several hundred yards away and had seen the four Humvees stopping. He said he had seen what looked like wounded soldiers being transferred to other Humvees, and the vehicles drove away. Then youths from the Sakir Quraish middle school nearby streamed toward the Humvees, celebrating the attack, Mr. Hussain said, and about 10 minutes later several other American Humvees arrived — and the soldiers inside opened fire. He said an American bullet had struck the windshield of a new fire truck, presumably bought with American aid, and at least six bullets raked the station's second floor. Mr. Hussain said he had seen his young neighbor, Hassan, dead. He saw only one other child, about 4 years old, wounded. He did not blame the Americans, but the children. "I believe if they didn't burn the Humvee, the Americans wouldn't have fired," he said. Behind the firehouse, workers erected a steel-framed tent, used in the Arab world for funerals. Two neighbors corroborated Mr. Hussain's account that the stricken Humvee seemed to have been hit by a bomb several hundred yards from where it had stopped. They also agreed that a second group of Americans began shooting after arriving and finding the burning Humvee — and did so wildly. "When they shoot, they don't shoot at targets," said one neighbor, Ali Hussein, 45. "They just shot randomly." The neighbors said they had heard that four children had been killed but had not seen the bodies themselves. Muhammad Yacut, 40, who has two children in the middle school, said he arrived just after the explosion to see scores of youths near the bridge and a cameraman from what he believed to be Al Arabiya urging them to jump in celebration. "The cameraman said, `Come over the bridge and celebrate, and I will film you,' " Mr. Yacut said in an account supported by others in the neighborhood. He said a taxi driver passing by had poured gasoline over the Humvee and set it ablaze. Then a second group of Americans arrived, he said, and opened fire. He said he had seen four or five children lying still — he presumed they were dead. Later, at Sadr General Hospital, Dr. Muaed Aad, a surgeon, said the hospital had received 14 wounded but no fatalities. (It is also true that Iraqis, who observe the Muslim tradition of immediate burial, often do not take the dead to hospitals.) Inside the Green Zone, the heavily fortified command center for the American occupation, Brig. Gen. Mark Kimmitt, the chief military spokesman, said one soldier had been killed and three wounded Sunday by a roadside bomb. When soldiers returned to their Humvees after evacuating wounded soldiers, they found children rifling through the vehicles, and gunmen began firing from rooftops. General Kimmitt suggested that American soldiers, who returned fire, had not caused any injuries or deaths. "We strongly suspect the shooting from the rooftops was responsible for any casualties," General Kimmitt told reporters, adding that the incident was under investigation. Reached by telephone, Hisham Badawi, Baghdad bureau chief for Al Arabiya, said a freelance cameraman who often worked for the network was at the scene and had been arrested by American troops. He said the cameraman, Aqeel Muhammad, had not encouraged the children to celebrate the hit Humvee. "There is no proof, or any pictures or any footage showing that our cameraman did this," he said. "Kids normally gather at events like this and start cheering." Copyright 2004 The New York Times Company | Home | Privacy Policy | Search | Corrections | Help | Back to Top
My commentary is just that ... commentary. On the other hand, glynch's headline is stated as fact. What's up with that? It does not meet the definition of a conspiracy. It's just a plausible explanation of what happened for which there appears to be some support. Why are you so eager to find fault with Americans? Don't get dizzied by the spin from your own side! I will bet my house that the average American soldier has 50 times the compassion for <b>any</b> child that the average Al Quaedan/Fedayen has for <b>other</b> children.
Actually there is some proof because of the witnesses. For the record, I said that we shouldn't decide on what happened just because of these people's testimony, but it is evidence in one direction.
Usually a witness offers "evidence" not "proof." Eyewitness testimony is usually very suspicious-- especially coming from a man who has been drinking!!!!!!
As soon as I read the premise of the article, I knew this would be the result: each side would claim that the other side was responsible. Every time a bomb goes off in a civilian neighbourhood over there, the same thing happens; US claims it's insurgents, Iraqis claim it's US missiles. While it's true that this should be treated as coming from a biased source ( Iraqis), ask yourselves 2 questions: 1) Have you ever given ANY credence to the Iraqi versions of US missiles being responsible when we were saying it was insurgents bombs? 2) What does it tell you that Iraqi versions are acknowledged as 'biased' against us? That Iraiw children celebrate attacks on us? Which version of reality about the level of anti-US sentiment does that support, theirs or ours?
The military said there was rooftop shooters as cited, these "credible" witnesses with "nothing to gain/no agenda" mentioned nothing about rooftop snipers,...I'm more inclined to believe there was rooftop snipers, and for all we know the bullets came from the insurgents... But what troubles me greatly about what these witnesses did say was this form the last article:...Several Iraqis there did say the children had been incited to jump around the burning Humvee by a cameraman for Al Arabiya, an Arab news channel, which American officials say is guilty of stoking a much broader anti-Americanism among viewers around the Arab world. The station denies that its cameraman did anything but film. What this shockingly shows is that because of the agenda by Al Arabiya, the safety and livelihood of the innocent children had no regard or consideration when they were placed in harm's way...This is a travesty, and a crime!...and I hope those responsible for this action at the Arab news channel gets swift action against them.
I know you didn't. I was referring to the thread starter. Sorry I wasn't clear. I was watching a documentary on the taking of Baghdad last night on The Discovery Channel and this actually came up. There was a guy firing an RPG at one of our tanks from inside a truck. Of course the Marines took the truck out. Turns out the back of the truck was full of women and children. When they found out there were children in the back, many of the Marines were crying. Call me naive, but I don't think our troops are targeting women and children just for sport...
