1. Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

US pulls the plug on Muslim websites

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout' started by Q8 Rocket, Nov 8, 2001.

  1. Q8 Rocket

    Q8 Rocket Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2001
    Messages:
    121
    Likes Received:
    0
    Islamic groups have condemned a government crackdown on a Texan telecoms company as part of a "witch-hunt", writes Brian Whitaker .

    Monday September 10, 2001

    Five hundred websites - many of them with an Arab or Muslim connection - crashed last Wednesday when an anti-terrorism taskforce raided InfoCom Corporation in Texas.

    The 80-strong taskforce that descended upon the IT company included FBI agents, Secret Service agents, Diplomatic Security agents, tax inspectors, immigration officials, customs officials, department of commerce officials and computer experts.

    Three days later, they were still busy inside the building, reportedly copying every hard disc they could find. InfoCom hosts websites for numerous clients in the Middle East, including al-Jazeera (the satellite TV station), al-Sharq (a daily newspaper in Qatar), and Birzeit (the Palestinian university on the West Bank).

    It also hosts sites for several Muslim organisations in the United States, among them the Islamic Society of North America, the Muslim Students Association, the Islamic Association for Palestine, and the Holy Land Foundation for Relief and Development.

    In addition, InfoCom is the registered owner of ".iq" - the internet country code for Iraq .

    A coalition of American Muslim groups immediately denounced the raid as part of an "anti-Muslim witch-hunt" promoted by the Israeli lobby in the United States.

    Mahdi Bray, political adviser to the Muslim Public Affairs Council, said: "We have deep concerns that this once again is an attempt to rush to judgment and to marginalise the American Muslim community. There is a pattern of bias that often permeates all of these types of investigations."

    The FBI, meanwhile, insisted the search had nothing to do with religion or Middle East politics. "This is a criminal investigation, not a political investigation," a spokeswoman said. "We're hoping to find evidence of criminal activity."

    Several Muslim groups have linked the raid to an article which appeared in the Wall Street Journal on August 13. Written by Daniel Pipes, director of the foreign policy research institute in Philadelphia, it called on the US to "support Israel in rolling back the forces of terror" by shutting down websites belonging to the Islamic Association for Palestine and the Holy Land Foundation.

    "The federal authorities should use the tools it already has in closing down these websites and organisations," the article said.

    Daniel Pipes appears regularly in the US media, where he is regarded as an authority on the Middle East. Arab-Americans, on the other hand, regard him as a Muslim-basher and a staunch supporter of Israel.

    In one magazine article Pipes wrote: "Western European societies are unprepared for the massive immigration of brown-skinned peoples cooking strange foods and maintaining different standards of hygiene... All immigrants bring exotic customs and attitudes, but Muslim customs are more troublesome than most."

    In 1995, after the Oklahoma bombing (for which former war hero Timothy McVeigh was eventually executed) Pipes wasted no time in pinning the blame on Muslim extremists. He told USA Today: "People need to understand that this is just the beginning. The fundamentalists are on the upsurge, and they make it very clear that they are targeting us. They are absolutely obsessed with us."

    It is unlikely, however, that the FBI could have obtained a warrant to search InfoCom on the basis of Daniel Pipes's remarks in the Wall Street Journal. They would have to demonstrate "probable cause" to a judge, but in this case the reasons may never be known because the judge ordered the warrant to be sealed.

    InfoCom's lawyer, Mark Enoch, said that whatever the company was suspected of, the FBI had "bad information"; InfoCom was innocent of any wrongdoing.

    According to the New York Times, citing unnamed government officials, the purpose of the search was to discover whether InfoCom has any links to the militant Palestinian organisation, Hamas .

    Under an anti-terrorism law introduced in 1996, it is illegal in the US to provide "material support" for Hamas or other organisations on the state department's banned list. Although Israeli sympathisers in the US have been clamouring for prosecutions, there have been no major cases so far and some lawyers question whether the 1996 law is constitutional.

    Just across the road from InfoCom's offices, in Richardson on the outskirts of Dallas, is the headquarters of the Holy Land Foundation (HLF). Apart from their physical proximity, InfoCom and HLF are intimately connected through two brothers: Ghassan and Bayan Elashi. The Elashis are of Palestinian origin and of a religious disposition. Ghassan is chairman of HLF and vice-president (marketing) of InfoCom.

    InfoCom is a small but apparently successful company with a global business in computers, networking, telecommunications and internet services. Established in 1982, it moved to the area of Texas known as "Telecom Corridor" nine years ago. Its business in the Middle East has been expanding largely because of its expertise in Arabic-language databases. It recently won a contract in Jordan for a website where people can buy and sell cars.

    Asked about the company's ownership of ".iq", the Iraqi national internet address, Ghassan Elashi said: "We were one of the pioneers of the internet at a time when all the upper domain names were available for everyone. We searched the lists and found Iraq was available for registration."

    To avoid any trouble over sanctions, InfoCom informed the state department that it had registered ".iq", Elashi said. The state department replied with a "ridiculous" list of restrictions which mean that the company has never been able to make use of the Iraqi domain.

    He said he had no idea what the task force was looking for in raiding InfoCom's offices, though the staff were giving them full cooperation. He added: "Over the last four to five weeks we have experienced some unusual hacking - mostly by pro-Israeli hackers."

    The HLF, on the other side of the street, is a tax-exempt charity established in 1989. Most of its efforts are focused on helping Palestinians in Jordan, Lebanon and the occupied territories, but it has also sent humanitarian aid to Bosnia, Kosovo and Chechnya, as well as earthquake relief to Turkey and flood relief to Mozambique.

    According to its website, the HLF has provided sponsorship for more than 1,800 Palestinian orphans and 450 families living in refugee camps. It has funded several medical projects, including Dar al-Salam hospital in Gaza, al-Razi hospital in Jenin, al-Ahli hospital in Hebron and a rehabilitation center for the handicapped located in Amman, Jordan. In Lebanon, it provided safe water supplies for 72,000 refugees in the Palestinian camps.

    For several years the HLF has been the target of attacks by Israeli sympathisers. A letter sent to news organisations by New York senator Charles Schumer accused it of "raising millions of dollars for the Palestinian cause in the Middle East, some of which has been knowingly channelled to support the families of Hamas terrorists."

    A more specific claim, mentioned on the website of a Jewish organisation, the Anti-Defamation League, is that it has provided "monthly stipends to the families of terrorist suicide bombers in Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza".

    The evidence against the HLF presented by the League in a 1998 press release was somewhat tenuous. It said that Israel had banned a Jerusalem-based organisation called the Holy Land Foundation (which it described as the "apparent counterpart" of the Texas charity) on the grounds that it was a front for Hamas.

    Also, the League said, the Texas-based Islamic Association for Palestine (IAP) had urged its members to send donations to the HLF. The League noted that the IAP had also "distributed official Hamas literature in the United States" and that its fundraising letter described the Palestinian struggle as "jihad" - "a term regularly used by Hamas".

    More recently, HLF and several other Muslim charities have become the target of a $600m (£409m) lawsuit by the parents of David Boim, an Israeli-American student who was shot dead in the West Bank in 1996. Using the 1996 anti-terrorism law, the family are claiming compensation from the charities, alleging that they provided "material support" to Hamas and were therefore responsible for David's death.

    Ghassan Elashi dismisses all these allegations. "The Holy Land Foundation is as clean as crystal water," he says. "We have never been bothered by any government agencies."

    But to the alarm of America's Arab and Muslim minorities, there are signs that the climate may be changing. Assistant New York state attorney general Karen Goldman has recently been pressing for a tax audit of HLF to "enforce the laws applicable to exempt organisations". Another Muslim charity, the Islamic African Relief Agency, is engaged in a legal dispute with the state department after it revoked US aid grants worth $4.2m.

    It is, of course, a duty of governments to ensure that charities maintain financial probity. The concern is that some charities may be getting singled out for discriminatory reasons.

    The catch-all nature of the 1996 law against providing "material support" to banned organisations is also arousing controversy. "It makes any support whatever a crime," one Arab-American said last week. "Simply giving blankets to the wrong kind of hospital could be a violation of the law."


    http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4253580,00.html

    who got the advanteges of shutting down these web sites ?

    what does it mean ??
     
  2. glynch

    glynch Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2000
    Messages:
    18,072
    Likes Received:
    3,601
    Q8 Rocket. Thanks for the very interesting article.

    Providing articles from objective sites like this is really the best way to advance your position.
     
  3. haven

    haven Member

    Joined:
    Oct 22, 1999
    Messages:
    7,945
    Likes Received:
    14
    The article certainly doesn't go into too much detail, does it? Hard to tell what standards were used.

    We do know that the CIA believes that websites are used for communication in al-Queda. I hope that the FBI believed these websites may have been affiliated.

    I don't think we're close to the denial of freedom of speech... yet. At least on matters of politics. Sexuality is another matter entirely ;), since it seems that the parental lobbies are stronger than the Friends of Israel!
     
  4. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 1999
    Messages:
    36,288
    Likes Received:
    26,645
    Did anyone else notice the date of the article being September 10? That means the raid took place on September 5. This has nothing to do with the aftermath of the terrorist attack.
     
  5. SamCassell

    SamCassell Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    9,496
    Likes Received:
    2,347
    Nice catch, bobrek. What was the point of posting a 2-month-old article, anyway?
     
  6. RocksMillenium

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2000
    Messages:
    10,018
    Likes Received:
    508
    Sorry Q8 Rocket this proves nothing. This is dated the day BEFORE the terrorist attacks, so what does this prove? Anything could have happened. I know you and glynch are determined to prove that America and jewish people are out to get Arabs and Muslims but this doesn't prove anything. Notice the part that you didn't highlight:

    <i>Five hundred websites - <b>many of them with an Arab or Muslim connection -</b> crashed last Wednesday when an anti-terrorism taskforce raided InfoCom Corporation in Texas.

    </i>

    Last Wednesday, meaning Sept. 5th, and it said MANY, not all Muslims sites. Many could mean 20 of them happened to be sites which, conveniently are only CONNECTED, not actual sites. You can twist this around all you want, many of the sites could have been black sites, white sites, European sites, anything.
     
    #6 RocksMillenium, Nov 8, 2001
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2001
  7. rockHEAD

    rockHEAD Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 1999
    Messages:
    10,337
    Likes Received:
    123
    maybe he's saying we attacked first, thus provoking the events of 9/11/01??

    :confused:

    rH
     
  8. treeman

    treeman Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 1999
    Messages:
    7,146
    Likes Received:
    261
    Q8 probably believes the most common theory floating around the ME - that the Mossad and CIA actually planned and carried out the attacks so that they could start a war and kill all of the Arabs - and this article would play into that "theory"...

    At least he's trying to find articles from more credible sources now. I guess that's a step up...
     
  9. Sonny

    Sonny Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2001
    Messages:
    5,436
    Likes Received:
    8

    Advantages. Spelling is important when you are being stupid.
     
    #9 Sonny, Nov 8, 2001
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2001
  10. francis 4 prez

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2001
    Messages:
    22,025
    Likes Received:
    4,552
    maybe they were just trying to make more room for p*rn on the net
     
  11. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 1999
    Messages:
    35,055
    Likes Received:
    15,229
    Well, if we've been out to get Muslims, it started before 9/11, so I don't see how his argument is invalidated by the date.

    As for the article, I dug up the NYTimes article they refer to. Here's the quote from Q8's article:

    And here is the NYT article:

    The basic jist is right, but some important details are skewed:
    1. Q8's article suggests that InfoCom got closed down. But, according to the NYT's article (from Nov. 5th, entitled "As Debate on Privacy Heats Up, Sales Don't", By John Schwartz, by the way), they were only closed down temporarily -- a fact which the first journalist read but didn't pass on.

    2. Q8's article suggests a suspicion that InfoCom had ties to terrorist groups, while the NYT article it cites says the concern was that they hosted web-sites that raised funds for groups affiliated with terrorists (and not just Hamas). That is, Q8's article suggests the relationship to terrorists is primary while the NYT characterizes the suspected relationship as secondary.

    But, to the credit of Q8's Guardian journalist, Daniel Pipes does sound kind of... well, something. Here is the 8/13 article that is referred to (it is too long to just post): http://www.io.com/~freeman/updates/520.htm

    I also looked at the anti-defamation league who said what they are claimed to have said. But, that's what they do, isn't it?
     
  12. Dr of Dunk

    Dr of Dunk Clutch Crew

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 1999
    Messages:
    46,631
    Likes Received:
    33,629
    I had completely forgotten about this raid and how close it was to the date the idiots attacked innocents in the WTC. I live in Dallas and the talk going around here was due to possible terrorist connections by some of the websites or the company itself. I didn't know what ever became of it after the raid, however. I wonder if this was a clue they knew something was about to go down (ie, the 9/11 tragedy)?
     
  13. ROXRAN

    ROXRAN Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2000
    Messages:
    18,813
    Likes Received:
    5,218
    Damn, this is like a bad Hibbi-Jibbi X-files episode....The truth is out there with Q8 digging in the trash can to show the whole world that we really and truely want all muslim/ME people dead. Censorship is only a step. Infringement of rights is a step. filtration of biased media is only a step. Propaganda is only a step. Eradication and genocide of ME/muslim people is the goal!!!!
     
  14. Timing

    Timing Member

    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2000
    Messages:
    5,308
    Likes Received:
    1
    The FBI shut down websites that are possibly being used by the Hamas terrorist group? Boy that is a real heartbreaker... :rolleyes:
     
  15. Colby

    Colby Member

    Joined:
    Jun 8, 2000
    Messages:
    747
    Likes Received:
    0
    How much more room do we need for freakin p*rn? My answer to this and many other questions: All of them.

    p*rn - Truly the best and most profitable thing the internet has ever furthered.
     
  16. HOOP-T

    HOOP-T Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2000
    Messages:
    6,053
    Likes Received:
    5
    A famous prophet once said:

    "I think people just want to save money."

    This is my theory on the website thingy above. It's all about money.
     
  17. HayesStreet

    HayesStreet Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 1999
    Messages:
    8,507
    Likes Received:
    181
    The catch-all nature of the 1996 law against providing "material support" to banned organisations is also arousing controversy. "It makes any support whatever a crime," one Arab-American said last week. "Simply giving blankets to the wrong kind of hospital could be a violation of the law."


    How many Hamas run hospitals are there exactly? I didn't realize how much I had misperceived Hamas! I was pretty sure they were devoted to violently attacking people in Israel.
     
  18. mrpaige

    mrpaige Member

    Joined:
    Feb 5, 2000
    Messages:
    8,831
    Likes Received:
    15
    So the FBI goes in and raids a company that is suspected of shipping computer technology to Syria and Lybia (according to the US Commerce Department) and one of whose investors was the wife of a Hamas leader, and it's all about infringing on the free speech rights of Muslims (which wouldn't be accurate anyway since Infocom also hosted several non-Muslim websites, according to the Dallas Morning News, including articles prior to the raid).

    The Holy Land Foundation has been suspected of having ties to terrorist organizations for some time, as well. The Clinton State Department attempted to decertify the charity because of its purported links to Hamas in 2000, and the charity itself has admitted to providing money for the families of members of Hamas (Dallas Morning News, 6-18-2000, 8-25-2000). Mohammed Anati, a former member of Hamas who was arrested by Israeli Police in 1997, told police that the Holy Land Foundation helped channel money to the familes of Hamas.

    The Holy Land Foundation was sued in 2000. The $200 million lawsuit accused the Hold Land Foundation of helping Hamas carry out a 1996 terrorist attrack in the West Bank.

    The Holy Land Foundation also had ties to Muhammad Salah who was reportedly laundering money for Hamas.

    In the end, these investigations may turn up nothing criminal on the part of Infocom or Holy Land Foundation, but these raids and investigations were about suspected criminal activity, not about unpopular speech.
     
  19. RocksMillenium

    Joined:
    Dec 28, 2000
    Messages:
    10,018
    Likes Received:
    508
    That's true Juan. Then again I wonder if Q8 thinks there's a conspiracy to get rid of white or black people when they do raid on crime syndicates. A crime is a crime, no matter your religion or faith or race, etc.

    <b>p*rn - Truly the best and most profitable thing the internet has ever furthered.</b>

    HAHA! And the sick thing is you are probably right! :)
     
    #19 RocksMillenium, Nov 8, 2001
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2001
  20. boy

    boy Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2001
    Messages:
    268
    Likes Received:
    0
    holy land foundation is great

    god bless em.

    the law suit was crap. can i sue the government of america everytime a palestinian is killed because americans gave israel the appaches?
     

Share This Page