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US General: "the Christian God is "bigger" than Allah, who is a false "idol&quo

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by glynch, Oct 17, 2003.

  1. glynch

    glynch Member

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    The fanatics in the Bush Adminstrtion have put this nut case in as an undersecretary for defense.


    God put Bush in charge, says the general hunting bin Laden
    By David Rennie
    (Filed: 17/10/2003)


    The general leading the hunt for Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein has publicly declared that the Christian God is "bigger" than Allah, who is a false "idol", and believes the war on terrorism is a fight with Satan, it emerged yesterday.

    Investigative reporters from the Los Angeles Times and NBC television have dug up two years' worth of seemingly incendiary comments from Lt Gen William "Jerry" Boykin, the newly promoted deputy undersecretary of state of defence for intelligence.

    Gen Boykin has repeatedly told Christian groups and prayer meetings that President George W Bush was chosen by God to lead the global fight against Satan.

    He told one gathering: "Why is this man in the White House? The majority of Americans did not vote for him. He's in the White House because God put him there for a time such as this."

    In January, he told Baptists in Florida about a victory over a Muslim warlord in Somalia, who had boasted that Allah would protect him from American capture. "I knew my God was bigger than his. I knew that my God was a real god and his was an idol," Gen Boykin said.

    He also emerged from the conflict with a photograph of the Somalian capital Mogadishu bearing a strange dark mark. He has said this showed "the principalities of darkness. . . a demonic presence in that city that God revealed to me as the enemy".

    On the Middle East, Gen Boykin told an Oregon church in June that America could not ignore its Judaeo-Christian roots. "Our religion came from Judaism and therefore [Islamic] radicals will hate us forever."

    In the same month, Gen Boykin told an Oklahoma congregation that Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein were not the enemy.

    "Our enemy is a spiritual enemy because we are a nation of believers. . . His name is Satan."

    The disclosures will doubtless be seized on by Muslim critics as proof that the US-led war on terrorism is a crusade against Islam. It is a charge that Mr Bush has worked hard to refute.

    Though careful to respect minority religions within its ranks, the US military is strikingly devout from top to bottom. Mr Bush and several key figures in his administration are staunch Christian conservatives.

    Few outside the Pentagon noticed when Gen Boykin, a 13-year member of Delta Force, the top-secret commando unit modelled on the SAS, was promoted this summer, with responsibility for speeding the flow of top-secret intelligence to commandos hunting bin Laden and other high-value targets.

    At a routine press conference yesterday, Donald Rumsfeld, the normally confident defence secretary, appeared wrong-footed by the controversy. He hailed the general's "outstanding record" and said his comments were made "in his private capacity".

    However, Mr Rumsfeld was careful to cite Mr Bush's injunctions against viewing Islam as the enemy.

    Gen Boykin told NBC that he would be curtailing his speeches to religious groups. "I don't want to come across as a Right-wing radical," he said.



    link
     
  2. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Ugh....get him out of there.

    DD
     
  3. AroundTheWorld

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    That does sound completely nuts.
     
  4. Cohen

    Cohen Member

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    Sounds like a damn fool to me.
     
  5. MacBeth

    MacBeth Member

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    Are people now seeing any reason that the Middle East's perception that we are engaged on a holy war to wipe out Islam is , if not based in reality, at least a completely understandable misconception on their part, considering that we have guys like this, etc. in military command, that Bush quotes God, "evil vs. good", etc. a lot, our consistent and biased approach to the Israel/Palestine issue, and that we only seem to attack Muslim nations and leave non-Muslim nations which pose greater threats alone. Honestly, if you were them...and remember how when discussing " them" we often see individuals as examples of the whole...whatwould you think?
     
  6. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    I would think that I'd better get in line with all the other civilized countries before the USA b**** slaps me back to the curb.

    DD
     
  7. AroundTheWorld

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    MacBeth, don't take this personally AGAIN, but did you notice that in every other post, you say something like "honestly", like to give your words more weight...
     
  8. MacBeth

    MacBeth Member

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    So I should take this as a general comment towards the populace at large?


    And I think we all have posting habits, no?
     
  9. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"
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    Um. But "other civilized countries" don't have military people who publicly claim mandates from deities! Those countries may actually step off the curb with any continuation of this nonsense. I know you see the problem. You said "get him out of here," so I think we're on the same page.
     
  10. MacBeth

    MacBeth Member

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    Well, that pretty much summarizes what I thought your attitude was towards US/international relations.
     
  11. AroundTheWorld

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    Don't take it personally as in I would be trying to attack you. Obviously you did not understand that, but what could I expect.

    Posting habit yes, but in your case it is something else.
     
  12. MacBeth

    MacBeth Member

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    LOL! And I suppose THAT is as non-personal, non critical as your other comments...
     
  13. AroundTheWorld

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    Who said non-critical? Your posts deserve criticism. You should feel honored that I even take the time to try to help you.
     
  14. JuanValdez

    JuanValdez Member

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    I've learned to not trust journalistic paraphrasing when it comes to religion because it seems most writers don't really understand the underlying theology to really get what they're hearing. So, I cut those parts out and left the quotes.

    Some of the quotes make him sound kind of wacky; others seem to pretty typical Christian jargon. It is pretty standard to believe that God put political leaders in their positions of power (though with the understanding that they are not always put there to do good). Saying Allah is an idol is also common -- if you're worshipping the one, true God, what else could Allah be but an idol? The 'bigger' part, comparing one's own god to the gods of others, is a device borrowed from Psalms.

    Saying that Islamic radicals will hate America for its Judeo-Christian roots is just true, regardless of your worldview. Implying that Islam is a Satanic religion is common in conservative churches, though I think the implication here is a bit skewed. I usually see it in the form that Satan has used a half-truth to deceive people into worshipping Allah, not that Muslims are intentionally worshipping Satan.

    What does worry me is his implication that the USA is God's Country. That is, that our role is to fight God's fight in the world, somehow combining patriotism with Christianity. I suppose it happens a lot, but is poor theology and sounds very dangerous.
     
  15. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"
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    Get a room, guys.
     
  16. MacBeth

    MacBeth Member

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    Sorry...I am confused...you are, you admit, criticizing my posting in general, yet you are also criticizing me for taking it personally...

    "Don't take it personally as in I would be trying to attack you. Obviously you did not understand that, but what could I expect."


    I don't get it...
     
  17. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Sure, why should we expect the rest of the world to act with civility?

    I mean, set low expectations so you won't be dissappointed, right MacJag?

    DD
     
  18. DaDakota

    DaDakota Balance wins
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    Maybe if you bury your head in some old worn out book, you can find some historical reference to allow it to make sense.

    Honestly....

    DD
     
  19. MacBeth

    MacBeth Member

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    A response completely worthy of you.
     
  20. Mulder

    Mulder Member

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    I can see where he is getting these ideas...

    In January, he told Baptists in Florida about a victory over a Muslim warlord in Somalia, who had boasted that Allah would protect him from American capture. "I knew my God was bigger than his. I knew that my God was a real god and his was an idol," Gen Boykin said.

    Genesis 20:3-6 3 "You shall have no other gods before me.
    4 "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,


    In the same month, Gen Boykin told an Oklahoma congregation that Osama bin Laden and Saddam Hussein were not the enemy.

    "Our enemy is a spiritual enemy because we are a nation of believers. . . His name is Satan."

    Ephesians 6
    12___For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.


    Just a couple of quick ones but you get the idea. He feels like he is a believer of the one true God. A God that delivers your enemies unto you. A God that shows his believers the presence of true evil in disguise, through the fruits (or gifts) of the spirit. I guess it is a good thing that people have a similar reaction when a Muslim says this sort of thing and when a Christian says it. At least they are not being hypocritical.
     

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