Okay, I am taking a class in the MBA program on Thursday nights called "Current Problems in Human Resources and Industrial Relations'. I thought that this would be a really interesting class and then realized after the 1st night of class, it was all about unions. However, after my initial disappointment subsided, I found that this topic is a fascinating one. Personally, I don't ever see myself being someone who would support a union. My teacher for this class is definitely anti-union as he along with another guy decertified a local UAW in the '70s, lol. Yet, I am curious to see how many people here are pro-union and see what your arguments are in favor of a union. The textbook for this class is one of the most boring and dry reads you will ever find, but I found this info telling about unions. It is about employees who are "not regularly employed by the Bargaining Unit". After talking about part-time employees, "dual-status" employees, seasonal employees, students, retirees, trainees, probationary status employees, and special status employees, it finally mentions illegal aliens. And I quote: Although an employee may be in the US illegally, the employee is still entitled to the statutory protection of the act (the Labor Management Relations Act). Thus, illegal aliens employed in the bargaining unit would be included in the unit and are eligible to vote in representation elections. Gee, the first thought that came to my mind was "And unions wonder why people think they are corrupt?"
I'm pro-union for many reasons. But this bumper sticker sums up my thoughts best: "The Labor Movement: The People Who Brought You The Weekend."
Unions absolutely served a fundamental purpose in our society. But their time is over. They simply moved from protecting the normal hardworking employee to overreaching and now protect too many worthless employees.
Against, for economic reasons. Unions almost always oppose policies that promote a healthy economy and growth. Take for example, labor laws. If unions had their way, it would be nearly impossible to fire a worker, and as a result, unemployment would rise. Europe's unemployment problem is due in large part to very restrictive labor market laws.
I'm for unions. Are they perfect? No. Have they had a checkered history? In some cases, yes. They've also been responsible for "the weekend", as mentioned above, and for many other positive things. If state employees in Texas had a union worthy of the name, they wouldn't have gotten hosed so badly by the current Legislature. I think unions need to evolve like any institution, but they help keep in check some of the worst abuses of your average American employee... many millions that have never belonged to a union or ever considered it. I belonged to a couple of unions for a short time in order to get a couple of jobs during my vagabond years. One was the Seaman's Union (if that's what it was called) and the other was to work at the 2 major Houston newspapers at the time. The wages and benefits were excellent.
I will also say "what Hayes said"; however, I would like to add that having a union drains a company's finances. Having meetings about the union and then meetings with the union causes lost productive time. Having to pay the benefits that unions require or demand are funds that could have been used to give employees decent raises instead of minimal ones or none at all. I recognize their importance from a historical view but I feel that they have gotten out of control. Oh well, I guess it all depends on how much dealings you have had with unions. My father told me one time that his father claimed that the union was what put food on their table (he was an electrician, my grandfather that is).
The artificially prop up wages and are responsible for productivity losses due to employees not fearing losing their jobs. Their existence runs counter to free-market principles. Bigtexxx's vote: AGAINST
I am terribly conflicted over unions and have been for decades. I accept them as a necessary evil that are often more evil than necessary. Like all thinks Democratic, I embrace them because they ARE the outcasts. Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breath free, and I'm make them Democrats who work illegally in the homes of Republicans. wait, those guys aren't union. anyway, back to the unions, a necessary evil, but an evil nonetheless
I think unions are an evil the same way Board of Directors and CEOs are evil. Unions simply ensure that the workers have a voice and are compensated fairly. If they are to blame for lower raises, then so are the CEOs, who BTW have seen their salaries rise disproportionately over the last 20 years compared to the rest of the work force. Basically, both sides will try to take too much when negotiating. Just as the unions will make outrageous demands, I somehow doubt a company makes its "best offer" to the employees at the beginning the collective bargaining discussions. Human nature at work.
So fear is the only motivating factor for people to do their job? C'mon. How about American corporations artificially driving down wages by moving their operations overseas, and then selling the same product to the worker they just laid off? THAT'S free market? NAFTA and all that other "free trade" garbage *rewards* American corporations for firing American workers, avoiding taxes, skipping on tariffs and moving overseas. Sure, that's "free market," but it sure does America a fat lotta good. Supply-side is nice, but if nobody in America has jobs, where's the demand going to come from? We can't all be waiters and white-collar (which I would wager many of us in the BBS are, if we can check this site between 9-5). That's why unions are important. They stand up for the worker, who, if you hadn't noticed, is a pretty important part of America and its vitality.
Trying to hold onto manufacturing jobs is like being the little Dutch boy with your finger in the dike (no disrespect intended to those lesbians out there on the bbs). The only way the US has a future is (a) services, (b) technology, and (c) leadership.
Somehow, I have a feeling that since bigtexxx said he was against unions, that caused a spike in the vote for pro-union!
Fear is not the ONLY motivating factor for one's performance on the job. But it is a large one. Would you work hard if you knew nobody could fire you? I am in favor of moving no-skill manufacturing jobs overseas, because it will bring down the prices I buy goods for. Why must we subsidize unions in the form of above market compensation when it can be done cheaper someplace else? We'd end up paying way too much for our goods. I have dealt with unions on many occasions, and their employees were completely unmotivated, lazy and always threatening a strike. They get upset when others offer to do their job cheaper (HEAVEN FORBID). Bottom line is, if others can do the same work you do for cheaper, you need to either improve your skills or find another line of work. I'm not in favor of subsidizing those who don't earn their pay.
Unions, like the civil rights, feminism and environmental movements have outlived their usefulness. Employers can't afford to treat their workers like garbage in this day and age. When you join a union, you end your right to individually increase your pay and benefits due to merit and accomplishment and agree to do so collectively. I'm sure there are some people who unions have done some good for, but now they are simply a nusiance and in the case of government worker unions, are driving up the costs of city services with their often ridiculous demands.
just look at working conditions before unions. People losing hands children working People working 80+ hour weeks making mere dollars a day QUESTION: If there were no unions. . . . . Would Upper Management be as generous as they are now? IMO NO They would be raping and pillaging the labor of the poor in slave-like fashion [See Sweatshops] Rocket River Pro-Union people forget the PRE-UNION TIMES . . and I DOUBT THINGS WOULD HAVE GOTTEN BETTER WITHOUT THEM
Employers cannot afford to treat their workers like garbage???? When the economy goes south . . .so does Employee benefits and privileges without some protect . .. it would be like the Gas prices yea. . they go up during stress .. . . but they never quite make it back to Pre Stress levels employees would lose benefits and priviliges and eventually safeguards. . . . and once the economy rebounds. . . they would never get back to previous levels. . . cause a complete erosion of the last 80 some odd years of worker progress Rocket River
