First off I would like to congratulate this player all-star starting accomplishment for the east. Which one is he you may ask? Antoine Walker In the thread "NBA's 10 best players" I believe I am the only one to bring up his name. Yes, I believe he is a top 10 player in the league. His all-star status also confirms that. I've watched him play a ton and I see a ton of hustle and dignity from the guy. Am I just crazy for thinking this or does anyone else out there believe Walker is worthy of being a top 10 player in this leauge?
'Toine is no doubt an all-star....He rivals Webber (and of course second to KG) for best all-aound PF..
We've already opened this can of worms before... it's arguable that either Shaq or Kobe could be considered the best player on the Lakers. I would consider Kobe to be the best player right now. But my definition of player includes all facets of the game, not just physical prowess. Shaq dominates the game of basketball physically like no one in history has, but I seriously doubt that Shaq could consistently fake out his defender with a cross-over step, maintain excellent dribbling skills, or (obviously) consistently make his free throws. In my opinion, Shaq has weaknesses and Kobe does not. The only thing lacking in Kobe's game (as compared to Shaq) is the physical dominance.
i think Walker is a very good player, but i don't think he is one of the 10 best, he is deffenitly 1 of the best 15 but not 10
Were it not for the NBA heavily promoting Walker in the last week and a half of all star balloting over Grant Hill, he would not have even gotten the starting nod. He's not the best player on his team - Pierce easily is. If he could control himself, he could be much better than he is now, but as it stands, I'm not sure he's even top 5 at PF behind Duncan, Garnett, Webber, Dirk, and Karla...and those are just 5 off the top of my head.
Lakers = 2 Time NBA champion. Favorite to win this year still. Celtics = Haven't even made playoffs with Pierce and walker yet. Not favored to do anything other than finally make it there. Once the Celtics make it to/win the Finals, then I'll give them benefit of the doubt that they have 2 of the top 10-15 players in the league. But as of now, I certainly wouldnt classify walker as that yet, especially given that I think Pierce is better.
Kobe's a great player but ther's tons of guards in the league. Without Kobe the Lakers would still be contenders but without Shaq they probably wouldn't make the playoffs I think.
I'm not sold on Antoine, even after the better year. I think he should just stick to what he does well (and there are a number of those things) rather than jacking up 3's indiscriminately at a low percentage. As I said in another thread about the infuriating Jason Williams, I don't understand why coaches should allow this kind of thing just because the player insists "that's my game, and I'm gonna keep shootin' 'em even if they're not going in." Yeah, then the defender's "game" will be just to sit back and watch you miss.
I would agree with you that Shaq is more valuable to the Lakers' success than is Kobe, but, if you read up the thread a bit, someone mentioned that Kobe is not the best player on his team. If you want to defend Shaq as a better player, then have at. But, based upon my definition (and in my opinion), Kobe possesses all of the skills that you would want in a complete basketball player. Now his removal from the Lakers would definitely not hurt them as much as Shaq's, but that was not part of the original discussion. The effects of Shaq's removal from the Lakers as compared to Kobe's on goes to show how limited the league is in regards to the supply of quality BIG centers. If it were up to me, and I had to start my team from scratch, I would definitely want to start with Shaq. There is no one else that can defend him physically.
Antoine's good, but not great. The Celtics win because Pierce is dynamite. I watch quite a bit of Celtics ball, and Walker *will* get hot now and then. But he does nothing for the rest of the team. Pierce will break down defenses, has an intuitive court sense that allows him to dish to the open man, and plays hard-nosed defense. I'm not sure if Antoine Walker knows what defense means. Of course, that's more than compensated by the # of 3's he jacks up, even though he's not a good shooter from beyond the arch. Antoine Walker's in the top 1/3 of all NBA power forwads. That's as much as I'm willing to say about him.
All his all-star status confirms is that he's second most popular forward (Carter being first, and excluding the injured Grant Hill) in a conference lacking many star caliber power forwards. If the 10 all-star starters were considered the 10 best players, then that would mean the 10 best players would automatically exclude Tracy McGrady, Jason Kidd, Chris Webber etc. As haven put it, Antoine Walker is in the top 1/3 of power forwards (29 teams..that would be in the top 9 power forwards) Tim Duncan, Chris Webber, Kevin Garnett, Rasheed Wallace, Elton Brand, Karl Malone, Shareef Abdur-Rahim, Antonio McDyess all better or right there...and that's being generous..not counting guys that could easily play PF, but usually play SF like Dirk, Antawn Jamison and Shawn Marion and not to mention up and coming players like Eddie Griffin, Pau Gasol and Kenyon Martin.
I think Pierce barely cracks the top 10 list. You have to do a ton things right to be one of the 10 best--if Pierce puts together another year this dominant he is there. And like others have said, I don't think it is even close, Pierce is a much better player than Walker. Also, there are guys who are not top 10 that are better than Walker--Sheed, McDyess, Malone, Brand, Peja, Francis, Payton, Allen (all definetely better than walker)---plus Big Dog (maybe), Mutumbo (maybe), Wally (probably Walker is still better), Rahim (maybe), Nash (maybe), Miller (probably Walker is still better), and Stackhouse (maybe) off the top of my head. That puts Walker somewhere around 20. That is still pretty good, and puts him ahead of such solid contributers as Mobley, Jones, Zo, Miller, Davis (B), Odom, Robinson (D), and Divac.
Statistically Walker is a top 10-15 player in my opinion. 22.7 Points 9.6 Rebounds 5.1 Assists 1.3 Steals Per game. Not too many players matchup with him statistically. Pierce overall is a better player yes, but Walker should be given more credit than he is. He is quietly becoming one of the best front court players in the game. No--not THE BEST, but one of the best.
Good point...I probably should have stated a better time period other than forever previous. Wilt would have fit that definition also.
