here's something that could really get the blood boiling. . . granted, this question feels a little to me like asking who do you love more, your mother or your father. but as I've been watching this whole sordid mess unfold, I started thinking about taking sides and assessing blame. in another thread, ZRB said it would be management's fault if hakeem goes. I replied that it would be hakeem's fault. some people may feel like both sides are at fault. some people may want to wait until the dastardly deed has really been done before they even force themselves to think about a question like this. that being said, who do you love more: dream or rudy? I never thought about it like this before. however, for me, I think the choice is easier than I might have imagined it to be. in life, you want people with you who are going to be there for you when times are tough. you want people who are not going to bolt and run at the first sign of trouble. that's why my pick has to be rudolph tomjanovich. thinking back, this is certainly not the first time that hakeem has acted this way. he acted this way in '92 when he was demanding to be traded. he acted this way this past spring when he demanded to be traded. hakeem has always embraced the "son of houston" role whenever it has worked for him or to his advantage, but he's also been the first to discard it when it didn't. I remember, a few years ago, him making noise about wanting to finish his career in vancouver. this was not too long after the championships, even. how little regard for his time in houston would hakeem have to have to make a comment like that? on the other hand, you have rudy. a real company man. for 30 years, rudy has worked HARD for the best interests of the Rockets. as a player, as a scout, as an assistant and now as a coach, the man has been through every hard time that the franchise has been through. people continually want to diss the guy and act like he's just some lucky yokel who happens to have good things happen to him like forrest gump. but the man is about the best things in life: hard work and loyalty. bottom line, I love hakeem olajuwon as much as I will ever love any athlete in any sport. I grew up, from age 11 to age 27, watching him do wonders on basketball courts with the word "houston" across his chest. I love him with the naive innocence of youth that can only love that way once in life, that being before it gets hurt. however, the adult in me now sees what is real and what isn't. hakeem isn't everything that I have made him out to be. if and when he leaves houston, I feel like I know what all those old-timers describe when they talk about the brooklyn dodgers leaving for california. if and when hakeem leaves houston, it will hurt more than anything else in sports will ever hurt me. more than stockton's 3. more than mckey's tip-in. rudy's my man. he doesn't cut and run as soon as the first perceived "insult" to his "pride" and his "dignity" comes along. but this whole thing makes me feel sick. ------------------ houston rockets = 2 utah jazz = 0
What if his contract expires and the Rockets start looking at young Randy Wittman? What if a few years ago they considered trading him for Flip Saunders? ------------------ "I guess that's YOUR theory"
well, obviously, they don't trade coaches. however, something somewhat similar did happen back in '92. rudy wasn't the rockets' first choice to be head coach. they wanted CD to do it. only because of his heart problems, CD passed it onto rudy. if rudy had been as much about his ego as hakeem is proving himself to be, rudy could've split before. plus, I'm pretty sure rudy could wrangle more money out of some other team to go and coach somewhere else. he's one of only 3 active coaches [that I can think of] with multiple titles on is resume. loyalty is a real, live, practiced concept in rudy's life. loyalty is a word that hakeem wants shown to him but that he doesn't want to show houston. he wants respect? our offers are an insult? how much more respect can we show the guy than to not pursue webber and put all our other free agents on hold until we see him taken care of. we're bending over backwards for him. and, in the "end", he's going to end up bending us over forwards! ------------------ houston rockets = 2 utah jazz = 0
Look, I really like Rudy. Sometimes I disagree with his coaching and management decisions, but overall, I really like him. Still, my choice has to be Hakeem. Hakeem got Rudy where he is today. Hakeem got the Rockets to where they are today. Hakeem made me a fan. To be completely honest, this whole situation is bugging me too. I am disappointed that Hakeem wants to leave, but I can't blame him for wanting to play a lot longer. I don't think it is fair for you guys to say that he should accept the fact that he is no longer playing at MVP-level. Put yourself in Hakeem's shoes. Would you like to sit on the bench in the fourth quarter, watching Kenny Thomas, Matt Bullard, and Walt Williams throw away a game? All this, while knowing that you could step in and make a difference? That kind of disrespect is the reason why Hakeem is so hesitant to re-sign in Houston. If he and the coach have so much trouble communicating, then no wonder he is doing what he is doing. I don't think any of you would like to just hand over the team like that. Hakeem has been the Rockets for the last 17 years. All he really wants is to play in the fourth, and get the ball now and then. He proved at the end of the season, that he could still put up great numbers. Despite that, it still seems that if he were to re-sign, Rudy would go back to his old 20 minutes-of-Hakeem style. Back on December 9th, the Rockets were in a close game against the Sonics. Hakeem was shooting 7-7, and blocking shots left and right. Yet, if it wasn't for Kenny Thomas fouling out, he would have been kept on the bench the rest of the game. The Rockets ended up winning because Rudy was forced to put Hakeem back into the game. It shouldn't come down to that. Also, I think Rudy is too patient for Hakeem. Hakeem is like me. He wants to win now. He does not want to watch the Rockets develop, wants to be a part of a team that seriously considers itself a contender. The Rockets could be a contender next year, but I know that Rudy will put zero pressure on the Rockets to go for it. Hakeem knows that too. So, why should Hakeem be on a team like that? Why? Money. Hakeem expects more money from the Rockets, because he should be paid well if he is going to be disrespected all season. Also, I think Dan Fegan is the one behind most of this crap. He is the one dealing with the money, and we all know him to be a scum-bag. I think that Hakeem would like to re-sign, but Fegan is doing his best to squeeze more money out of Houston. That is his job, and unfortunately, he is doing it well. Hakeem is a legend. He has made the Rockets into a respected franchise, with two more titles than most other teams in the league. Say what you want about supporting cast, but Hakeem was basically a one-man show in the title years. Denying that to villainize Hakeem is simply pathetic. In the end, I will still be a Rockets fan if Hakeem leaves. But, you can count on the Rockets doing no better than the 8th seed, and a first round sweep. I will also root for whatever team Hakeem is on. It just won't seem right. Something will be missing. ------------------ Protrolls.com! Keep the ???? alive! The ZRBucks!
A reason I respect Rudy, was when the Rockets were playing the Celtics, with Calvin Murphy & Co. Rudy did not even make the Roster, but he still stood by his team from the sidelines. ------------------
Hakeem didn't Rudy where he is today. Rudy was a big reason for Dream winning a championship, getting him to trust in his teammates, getting his teammates to believe in him, and getting the right pieces in place for Dream to win a title. There is a reason Dream went 10 year without winning a championship. He finally got some help, people act like Dream just won everything on his own without any help. And I can't believe people are blaming Fegan. Fegan didn't hire himself Dream hired Fegan. Dream is the one letting Fegan do the talking, Dream is a grown man who has been in the league nearly 2 decades, he knows what he is doing, an agent isn't "doing the talking for him". ------------------ "Instruments are like women: After a while, you want to make love to another." - Nicolas Godin of the musical duo Air [This message has been edited by RocksMillenium (edited July 20, 2001).]
very interesting and articulate response, ZRB. I'm glad you weighed in on this one as it was a post of yours from another thread that got me thinking about this. understand, I have NO desire to villainize hakeem. as I wrote, I love him more than any other athlete ever. I'm also at a little of a disadvantage in that I don't get to actually watch as many rockets games as many of you do. I don't understand why hakeem has been sitting in the 4th quarter, either. but I know this: rudy only wants the rockets to win. I don't think he has anything personal against hakeem. I think they misunderstand each other, but I think there is genuine respect between them. so why is hakeem sitting in the 4th? is it injuries? is it his practicing habits? I'm just reaching at straws here. this is why this whole question is so tough and why it seemed worth posting. I'm not really looking for the BBS to announce rudy or hakeem as the winner of loyalty. I'm just curious to see other peoples' views on the matter. ultimatel, they are both THE ROCKETS, moreso than anyone else. I think, when most other fans think of the rockets, they think of dream posterizing the admiral and of rudy saying "heart of a champion". that's how it should be. unfortunately, I don't know if I'll have it within me to be as magnanimous as what you're describing, ZRB. if hakeem leaves, I simply don't know if I'd be able to root for him elsewhere. lastly, you're completely dead on about fegan. see my rant in the fegan thread about how I feel about him. if he's the guy I'm thinking of, then he actually lives in houston. how can a houstonian ponder actually have being "the guy who took the dream out of houston" on his conscience? ------------------ houston rockets = 2 utah jazz = 0
Rocksmill- Oh give me a break. Hakeem won those titles because he became the best player in the league from 93-95, and redefined the center position. The Rockets would have won with Tim Floyd as coach. Cheivious- Thanks for the nice reply. I wish I could understand Rudy's benchings of Hakeem too. He gives Hakeem big minutes in the wrong quarters. Hakeem should play most of the first and fourth, but he usually only plays most of the first and third. I think Rudy is one of the best talent evaluators ever, but his game-time decisions can be questionable. Maybe I exaggerated by saying that the Rockets would have won with Floyd, but I think the championship was 80 percent Hakeem, 10 percent role players, and 10 percent Rudy. The role players hit big shots, but the Rockets wouldn't have been in the situations for those shots to matter if not for the Dream. ------------------ Protrolls.com! Keep the ???? alive! The ZRBucks! [This message has been edited by ZRB (edited July 20, 2001).]
Sorry ZRB, that is weak. Who hit the game winning three in the corner against Phoenix? Who hit the big 3pt shots down the stretch in important games? It's called a TEAM game, Dream isn't god. But obviously ZRB you're saying Rudy isn't that good a coach and won because of Dream, well how come it took Dream 10 years to win? I guess Tim Floyd could have won 45 game with that Rockets team last year. It's a TEAM game. ------------------ "Instruments are like women: After a while, you want to make love to another." - Nicolas Godin of the musical duo Air
I should add that Dream wouldn't have won a 2nd championship because Mario Elie wouldn't have been around to hit that big 3 against Phoenix you know why? Rudy like Mario Elie's toughness and wanted him on Houston. The best player in the league doesn't win on his own. It's the same reason that Michael Jordan finally won, he got good supporting help, a good coach, and he trusted his teammates. ------------------ "Instruments are like women: After a while, you want to make love to another." - Nicolas Godin of the musical duo Air
You can't blame a 38-year old's antics on his agent. HOWEVER, as far as it's possible, Hakeem did win those titles ALL by himself. It would be like Shaq winning without Kobe (Drexler was the closest thing, and even he wasn't close). The interesting thing would've been to see a Houston/Chicago final during those years. Dream may have been able to put MJ in his place for once. ------------------ [This message has been edited by Tmo (edited July 20, 2001).]
imo, any comments that this is a money-issue to Dream is speculation. It seems to be a commitment issue to Dream. He seems to want Rudy to commit the team to use him. Maybe the 1yr offer was symbolic of not enough commitment; maybe the $4.1m was symbolic of not enough commitment; maybe they had real words behind the scenes. One thing I do not think it is is Hakeem purely trying to maximum his payday. He wants to maximize his competitiveness, not sit on the bench in the 4th quarter. give me da ball!
Sweet mother of holy Crap! I agree with Heypartn- Chrispee! It must be the end of the world! That's it, I'm going to the TV store to start looting! ------------------ Protrolls.com! Keep the ???? alive! The ZRBucks!
I think, if you take either dream or rudy away from the '94 and '95 champs, they wouldn't have won. look how close some of those games were, and that was with both of them. rudy is definitely an underrated coach. to me, this was proven when he did what he did with the college players in the '98 goodwill games or whatever those were. these two men NEED each other. I don't want either of them to be the villain. I want dan fecal or les alexander to be the villain. I've never really liked alexander anyway, and that's hard to do when a guy produces 6 championships in so short a period of time. yeah, I'm a closet comets fan. doesn't alexander remind you just a little too much of john mcmullen? but I stand by my original choice. . . if I absolutely have to choose one of the two, it's rudy. in one sense, that's easy. rudy's skills as a coach haven't eroded nearly as much as hakeem's as a player. but in terms of their worth to the city of houston, it's still a very tough choice to make. I think what you see is more of what you get with rudy. I think what you see with hakeem is more image and hype. I still think he's one of the better guys in the league, but this whole situation is reminding me of times when dream the person wasn't as stellar as dream the player, and it's making me think that he's not quite the hero I've been making him out to be the last 7 years. ------------------ houston rockets = 2 utah jazz = 0
and to answer the question...Rudy! Any coach who has such a young team eating out of his palm has my "ultimate loyalty." Player loyalty starts with the coach. Fan loyalty towards a player is fickle and not important. [This message has been edited by crispee (edited July 20, 2001).]
I think you're right, crispee, about 2 things: 1) that it's speculation to say that this is all about money to hakeem and 2) that this is about hakeem wanting to see a commitment to his utilization but again, I ask, "how much more commitment can we show dream than to give up on signing webber and to put all our other free agents on hold while we try to get hakem taken care of?". what more does dream need to see in the way of commitment to his value as a player than that if it's not about money? ------------------ houston rockets = 2 utah jazz = 0
Chievous - thanks for being so articulate concerning this loyalty thing. I think both are good guys but I would Dream is misguided at this point. He is misguided because of hurt feelings. Hope he really got past through that and see clearly the situation. Everybody knows that perfect situation for him is right here in Houston at a reasonable price. So yeah if I have to choose then it should be to Rudy on this particular situation. Although is does make me feel sick thinking about Dream leaving. ------------------
I'm with Rudy if you put it that way. Before I go futher let me say that I was gainst the trade two years ago to Toronto and for resigning him this time. I'm neutral on it now and a trade for Kenon Clark for instance would be just fine with me now. Hakeem has no loyalty to the Rockets. It almost makes me sick when I contrast him to Barkley taking $1 million to help get Pippen, when he could have gotten $9 million and had more game left than Hakeem does now. However, a guy like Charles will make it up in the long run as an announcer and well- loved guy with endorsements. Hakeem will just be another rich guy who used to be a jock. Maybe two years in Toronto and then one in LA just to spell Shaq for a few minutes. He'll might end his career as a Charles Jones type of 43 year old. Hey, maybe we can take him back for the minimum in 4 years to block a shot or two when we are contending. ------------------
