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U.S. soldier kills 16 civilians in Afghanistan, Karzai says

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by AroundTheWorld, Mar 11, 2012.

  1. AroundTheWorld

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    http://edition.cnn.com/2012/03/11/world/asia/afghanistan-us-service-member/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

    Kabul, Afghanistan (CNN) -- An American soldier went on a house-to-house shooting spree in two villages in southern Afghanistan early Sunday, Afghan officials said, killing 16 people in what Afghanistan's president called an "unforgivable" crime.
    NATO's International Security Assistance Force said the soldier acted alone and turned himself in to his commanders after opening fire on civilians. U.S. President Barack Obama called the killings "tragic and shocking," and offered his condolences to the Afghan people.
    But Afghan President Hamid Karzai called the killings "unforgivable," and the attack is likely to further more anger at international forces following deadly riots over the burning of Qurans by U.S. troops.
    "The Afghan people can with withstand a lot of pain," Prince Ali Seraj, the head of the National Coalition for Dialogue with the Tribes of Afghanistan, told CNN. "They can withstand collateral damage. They can withstand night raids. But murder is something that they totally abhor, and when that happens, they really want justice."
    Haji Agha Lali, a member of the provincial council, told CNN the soldier had attacked four houses in the villages of Alokozai and Barakzai. And in a statement issued by his office, Karzai said the dead included four men, three women and nine children, with another five people wounded.
    Capt. Justin Brockhoff, an ISAF spokesman, said the wounded Afghans were being treated in ISAF facilities. The allied command did not give its own estimate of casualties.
    Brockhoff said officials do not yet have a motive for the shooting, which is under investigation by both NATO and Afghan officials. But Maj. Jason Waggoner, another ISAF spokesman, said the killings "were not the result of any operations.
    "The soldier was acting on his own," Waggoner said. "After the incident, he returned to the compound and turned himself in."
    The news brought a wave of condemnations from top American officials. In a statement issued by the White House, Obama said the U.S. military will "get the facts as quickly as possible and to hold accountable anyone responsible."
    "I am deeply saddened by the reported killing and wounding of Afghan civilians. I offer my condolences to the families and loved ones of those who lost their lives, and to the people of Afghanistan, who have endured too much violence and suffering," Obama said. "This incident is tragic and shocking, and does not represent the exceptional character of our military and the respect that the United States has for the people of Afghanistan."
    In a separate statement, Defense Secretary Leon Panetta said he was "shocked and saddened" by the attack and said the suspect was "clearly acting outside his chain of command."
    Gen. John Allen, the NATO commander, said the "deeply appalling incident in no way represents the values of ISAF and coalition troops or the abiding respect we feel for the Afghan people." And acting U.S. Ambassador James Cunningham said his country was "saddened by this violent act against our Afghan friends."
    "We deplore any attack by a member of the U.S. Armed Forces against innocent civilians," he said in a video statement, assuring "the people of Afghanistan that the individual or individuals responsible for this terrible act will be identified and brought to justice."
    But Seraj, a member of Afghanistan's former royal family, said the killings are likely to play into the hands of the Taliban, the Islamic fundamentalist movement that has battled the U.S.-led coalition for a decade.
    "They are really going to milk this for all it's worth," Seraj said, adding, "This is playing right into their program of psychological warfare against the Afghan people."
    The Taliban has already said that the deaths were the result of a night raid by several soldiers and put the death toll at 50, but it regularly exaggerates casualty figures.
    Seraj called for a joint U.S.-Afghan investigation into the killings, saying Afghans will want to see "quick and decisive justice."
    "We cannot whitewash this and get this young man out of Afghanistan and send him back to the Untied States. That is the worst thing we can do at this time," he said. And he questioned how the soldier left his post in the pre-dawn hours, adding, "I know the Kandahar base. A fly cannot get in without being searched."
    The United States and its allies invaded Afghanistan in 2001, following al Qaeda's terrorist attacks on New York and Washington that killed nearly 3,000 people. The invasion quickly toppled the Taliban, which ruled most of Afghanistan and had allowed al Qaeda to operate from its territory. But the militia soon regrouped and launched an insurgent campaign against the allied forces and a new government led by Karzai.
    American and allied combat troops are scheduled to leave Afghanistan by 2014, and Karzai has been increasingly critical of the allied force. Tensions ramped up dramatically in February, after a group of U.S. soldiers burned copies of the Quran, Islam's holy book, that had been seized from inmates at the American-run prison at Bagram Air Base.
    American officials from Obama down called the burning an accident and apologized for it, but riots left dozens dead, including six American troops. Hundreds more Afghans were wounded.
    In Washington, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid told CNN's "State of the Union" that American troops were "under tremendous pressure in Afghanistan." But the Nevada Democrat added, "No one can condone or make any suggestion that what (the service member) did was right because it was absolutely wrong."
    On "Fox News Sunday," meanwhile, Sen. John McCain said: "It is one of those things that you cannot explain, except to extend your deepest sympathy to those victims and see that justice is done." McCain is the top Republican on the Senate Armed Services committee.

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    The Taliban are going to love this... how crazy must this idiot have been? Killing children? Insane.
     
  2. Xenochimera

    Xenochimera Member

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    damn, that's messed up..i feel bad for the killed and all the service people who are going to be retaliated against now
     
  3. False

    False Member

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    It's a shame. You get these people who are so caught up in anti-Muslim rhetoric that they lose sight of their humanity. Then, you put them in war-time situations and they act accordingly.
     
  4. shipwreck

    shipwreck Member

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    Afghan based terrorists enter and attack the US. US occupies Afghanistan, and terrorize them back. The irony is too brutally palpable.
     
  5. AroundTheWorld

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    Do you have any evidence that this act was motivated by anti-Muslim rhetoric? I read the articles, but could not find anything about the identity or motive of the killer yet.
     
  6. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Member

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    Karzai says?

    Them people strike again.
     
  7. REEKO_HTOWN

    REEKO_HTOWN I'm Rich Biiiiaaatch!

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    Leave him there. Let them do what they want from him
     
  8. AroundTheWorld

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    CNN headline.

    Edit: I see they just changed it, apparently.
     
  9. False

    False Member

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    You are right, the motive is unclear from the article because it doesn't address the issue. The evidence I have is anecdotal. Troops I have heard from have expressed the idea that the confluence of anti-Muslim rhetoric as well as the combat situation makes them value the lives of Muslim and "Muslim-looking" people less. It's a combination of the talk they hear at base as well as the natural fear they would have being in a combat area. It's something that operates at a subconscious level. Most troops are able to moderate it, but some can't. Some who are mentally ill have no chance and they strike out against the group that they have been conditioned to dislike. What evidence do you have that points the other direction?

    Almost reminds me of the Gabriel Giffords shooting. It wasn't just that that guy was mentally ill or that he had been listening to streams of hateful rhetoric. It was likely caused by the work of both acting together.
     
  10. AroundTheWorld

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    None, but I wasn't making a claim. You were.
     
  11. Air Langhi

    Air Langhi Contributing Member

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    You put these dudes in this situation and some of them are bound to snap.

    This quote was really angered me:
    That entire government is a piece of ****. They care less about life than money.
     
  12. False

    False Member

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    Oh, my mistake. Like I said, then this was likely caused by the confluence of mental illness, anti-muslim rhetoric and fear. You get these people who are mentally unstable, then catch them up in anti-anything rhetoric and fear that they lose sight of their humanity. Then, you put them in war-time situations and they act accordingly. In this case, while anti-muslim rhetoric at the base wasn't the sole cause, it likely had a strong effect on the mentally ill guys actions.

    While we can never stop mental illness, we need to do our best not to give it at outlet. That means not putting these people in war-time situations and turning down the rhetoric. If we don't, then fixation on certain groups can lead to unfortunate situations like this one in the future.
     
  13. AroundTheWorld

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    What evidence do you have that there was anti-Muslim rhetoric at the base? :confused:
     
  14. False

    False Member

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    Wait, so now you are challenging my assertion based on my anecdotal evidence. Make up your mind. Like I said in the earlier post that you quoted. Having talked to troops who have been stationed abroad, they report that anti-muslim rhetoric is prevalent on the base and that this influences troops to act in manners they wouldn't normally.
     
  15. Blake

    Blake Member

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    You obviously don't know us troops who have served in Iraq/Afghanistan
     
  16. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet

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    Every war is going to see soldiers dehumanizing the enemy. Whether they are calling Germans Krauts, Vietnamese Gooks, Iraqis Hajis, etc. It is not an easy thing to take someone's life. Steps get taken in order to make it easier. There are millions of troops who have served that are likely helped by the anti-whatever rhetoric. The fact that a couple of crazies might be influenced by it is no reason to change. Just like Giffords being shot is was reason to jump through hoops to avoid "violent" rhetoric like targeting districts or taking aim at a vulnerable senate seat. You can't base your behavior on how it might influence crazy people.
     
  17. SoccerFan

    SoccerFan Member

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    Seems very tit for tat to me:

    American kills 16 Afghans
    Various Afghans kill 6 US advisors
    Koran burning incident...etc...
     
  18. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    The events in the last month in Afghanistan have convinced me that we need to get out of Afghanistan NOW..
     
  19. rocketsjudoka

    rocketsjudoka Member

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    Let me make sure I am clear on this. Are you defending the use of derogatory and downright racist language and attitudes because it makes it easier to kill people?
     
  20. Mathloom

    Mathloom Shameless Optimist

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    This anti-Muslim terrorism is not unusual, its a literal example of what happens when someone lives in a messed up place doing messed up things for too long. One main difference being US soldiers are not native to this region, which makes this kind of case much more interesting. If US soldiers are being driven to this kind of action, how can you expect an Afghani with infinitely less freedom/wealth/education to behave better? (edit: Obviously, I know this is not the norm, but it is part of the larger anti-Muslim pattern)

    For example, it's not unusual for veterans to have severe psychological problems following their service, and that's clearly a result of putting humans in such an unnatural situation. Borders are arbitrary lines drawn up by war-minded governments, the human mind doesn't recognize borders or race and the human mind can't run away from the psychological problems associated with murdering other humans. Unless the mind is damaged already ofcourse.

    I hope scum like this guy and other terrorists kill each other off ASAP.
     
    #20 Mathloom, Mar 12, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2012

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