U.S Air Force's response to Congress: Airbus is better!

First, as the article notes, It's technically not Airbus, it's a joint venture between Airbus and Northrup Grumman.

Second- Boeing is absolutely KILLING Airbus in the commerical airliner market and recorded record-smashing revenues in 2k7, meanwhile Airbus has been on the skids since the A380 has proven to be the Edsel of the airliner market.

Mind you - this is just a few years after everybody pronounced Boeing as dead because Airbus supposedly had a superior business model.

 

Just like with automobiles, generally speaking Europe makes a better passenger plane as well. Even before the arrival of the A380, IMO the A340 was far superior to any Boeing plane (including the 777) with regards to design & comfort, noise, ergonomics, etc

Will be interesting to see what the new 787 is like though

 

see above - if this is true, why is Boeing coming off a year of record profits whereas Airbus is ailing and on financial life support? The A380 has proven to be a technical disaster, btw.

 

Four engine aircraft are going the way of the dinosaur, except for the extremely large aircraft like the A380 (which some consider a dinosaur). The A340 is almost completely dead because it was blown away by the 777 (and to a much lesser extent, Airbus' own A330). There is a reason the airlines have stopped buying them.

On a pure comfort level, I agree the A340 is a pretty good ride. No doubt about it. Don't know if I'd rate it better than the 777.

 

First take a flight seated in a private cabin on the upper deck of an A380 and then tell me it's a disaster

From what I understand there's actually been quite a healthy order flow for the A380 in the past few months.......and are you speaking of the technical and budget problems in the years leading up to the A380 rollout or have there now been technical problems with the aircraft since it actually began service?

As far as Boeing's record profits, they have also been a big beneficiary of the weak dollar giving them a huge pricing advantage. And in any case, the majority of airlines are looking first and foremost for cost effectiveness and reliability far above passenger comfort when choosing a plane...

 

I'm speaking in terms of the last two years in which EADS/Airbus has lost hundreds of millions of Euros due to A380 delays due to technical/design issues during which Boeing has posted its strongest years ever.

weak dollar? I don't think that entirely accounts for the discepancy - Boeng is basically making a billion in profit per year while Airbus is losing about that much. That's a hell of a lot.

 

The A380 is one of the biggest commercial blunders in history. Airbus had ***** envy over Boeing's 747, which they had no answer to. In a testosterone fit that overruled logic and sense, they were determined build the biggest commercial aircraft. Airbus said overcrowded hubs around the world needed larger gauge planes so fewer flights would be needed in order to continue growth. Boeing's position on the future was the huge hubs needed to be bypassed by direct flights between the worlds emerging cities and that the market for super huge aircraft was very limited.

We all know who was right. Not only has Airbus lost billions on the A380 space porky that will NEVER turn a profit, they find themselves 5-6 years behind the 777 in the key mid-sized widebody market in the next generation aircraft (A350). Not only that, Boeing will eventually announce a timeline on the next gen narrowbodies (expected to be ~2014-2015) and because of the A350, Airbus won't be able to respond before 2021-2022.

 

You are correct. The weak dollar has only exacerbated the problems Airbus was already having because of the A380.

 

Oh yes this is exactly right........I thought you had meant problems recently......still these financial problems don't matter to me - i'm only concerned with the most comfort possible when traveling.........i guess it's similar to how the maserati quattroporte has had terrible terrible sales since it came out......but that still doesn't change the fact that it's 50x better than any car made in the states....

 

the noise level is about the same b/t the two, but the lavratories and first class seats in the A340 are heads above the 777.......the seat quality could just be due to the airlines specifications themselves though, i dunno...

 

and airbus relies on European Gov subsidies to survive which Boeing doesn't have the luxury of.

 

yes because the us military doesn't hand them contracts that do in fact subsidies boeing/lockheed/northrump?

 

I know you want a competitive bid situation....but in a situation like this...military...$35b....taxpayer funded....you just have to do everything possible to award the contract to a US firm.

 

Unless I'm mistaken, but didn't Boeing and Airbus basically diverge in their philosophies?

Boeing went with smaller planes that allows for more flights and faster travel.
Airbus went with creature comfort and simply a more enjoyable flight.

So Boeing's success recently isn't indicative of them making good planes, just that they're making the ones that airlines like to buy.

 

Kinda ironic that American politicians are complaining about capitalism.

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This should teach American Defense Contractors not to keep selling the same old retread **** to the military at astronomical prices. To me it seemed like Boeing wanted to keep their 767 line open with this contract. I don't have a problem with our armed forces getting a better plane. We've been selling our arms to Europe for decades, but when our Military buys a better product from them, it suddenly becomes controversial.

Anyways Boeing is going to land on its fleet, they have 787 orders that will keep them in business for years. Remember Southwest is going to have to eventually start replacing their older 737s, which they certainly will with a 787 derivative.

 

But don't you also have a responsibility to minimize cost to taxpayers and get the best quality product for your military?

 

according to news articles that i've read, Northrop Grumman, a member the winning team, will be doing >60% of the work. Northrop is a Fortune-200 US-based corporation. According to Yahoo Finance, Northrop has a employee population of > 35,000.

just for the sake of discussion, every airplane that Boeing builts, it uses global suppliers, including those based in People's Republic of China. Had Boeing won this K-2 Tanker competion, it would continue to assign work to its global suppliers.