Can someone please clearly explain the balk rule? Announcers are always talking about "breaking the plane" with the foot--but what plane and what foot? Also, what is the obligation of a runner on first base if the batter strikes out, but the ball is dropped? I assume he's not required to run as with a force--which would allow a double play on a dropped third strike--so what does he do? Thanks
In regards to the balk rule I am not real sure. To me major league umps tend to call it fairly inconsitanly. Back when I played before high school I thought the rule was - if the pitcher started his motion to the plate and stopped or threw to first it was a balk. I am intersted to hear what others say about this. As far as your second qestion goes I think that the runner at first only has an obligation to go if the batter is going to touch first base. In practice the batter only goes with a runner on 1st if the ball gets past the catcher. Otherwise he just lets himself be tagged or simply returns to the dugout.
So, say the pitch is wild, and the runner goes. Then the catcher, like the animal he is, guns it over to second, and a double play is turned. Is that right? Is it a force then, or does a tag have to be applied?
Don't you have to tag the batter too for the batter to be out If he strikes out on a wild pitch? That's what I thought.
Oh yeah, that's what I meant. Cause if there was a person at first who took off when the batter struck out on a wild pitch, wouldn't he have to throw to first and than second to get a double play? My bad if I'm confusing you.
Well, no, because once the second runner (in this case, the batter) is out, the lead runner doesn't have to go anywhere. If the batter grounds to short, he runs to first, forcing the runner to go to second. My problem is: doesn't the same thing happen on a wild third strike? The runner has to go somewhere since the batter's going for first, so if the catcher is a beast and can get the ball to second before the runner gets there, is he forced? The more I think about it the more it seems like he would have to be tagged out, so only by way of a freakishly bad series of baserunning decisions could both runners get out.
I think an easier way to look at it is that if the catcher dropps the ball it is an option for the batter to try for first if he wants to. He can ignore it and retire himself if it is dropped and not a past ball. There is no force at second if the batter doesnt run.
So, if he decides to run, the force is in effect, and a team with an ungodly catcher could get a 2-4-3 double play. Surely there's an umpire on the board!
it is my understanding that if there are less than 2 outs when the 3rd strike/wild pitch/past ball scenario occurs, the batter is out and cannot advance to first. if there are 2 outs, then he can attempt to make it to first base. i assume at this point, the runner going for second can be forced out just as if it were a ground ball. but only with 2 outs, otherwise automatic out. and as i understand the balk rule (which i don't), the pitcher has to go home once his front foot goes back behind the rubber (i assume the plane of the rubber is what they are referring to). so assuming you make a windup type motion but never cross backover the rubber, you can throw to first. also, i believe you have to set for at least one second before delivering a pitch or it's a balk. now as for all the other intricacies of balks like flinching or twitching, i have no idea what the rules are on calling that stuff a balk or not.
I looked this up on MLB.com's official rules. I am too lazy deal with the balk rule becase it is complicated to post. Here is a link to the rules if you want to figure it out. http://www.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/mlb/official_info/official_rules/pitcher_8.jsp 3rd strike rule A batter becomes a runner when ...The third strike called by the umpire is not caught, providing (1) first base is unoccupied, or (2) first base is occupied with two out; When a batter becomes a base runner on a third strike not caught by the catcher and starts for the dugout, or his position, and then realizes his situation and attempts then to reach first base, he is not out unless he or first base is tagged before he reaches first base. If, however, he actually reaches the dugout or dugout steps, he may not then attempt to go to first base and shall be out.
Now we're talking. Didn't know the dropped third strike rule only applied to 2 out situations. But...I always see the catcher tag the batter after a drop, implying that he could in fact run to first. So, I'm thinking a dropped third strike allows the batter to attempt to take first, regardless of the number of outs. Unless of course you're certain about that rule. So, the rubber is in front of both of the pitcher's feet once he is about to wind up?
Follow the link and you will see why i didnt feel like messing with it. I think it may be one of the more confusing rules in sports. Thanks for starting this thread by the way. I helped me better understand the 2 rules.
I think the plane being referred to is the 45 degree angle between home and first base with the rubber as the vertex. If the pitcher is making a pickoff move, he must step to the first base side of this plane. Andy Pettite cuts this one very close all the time.
My understanding of the balk: 1) Pitcher doesn't bring hands to complete stop. 2) He commits to throwing a pitch then thows to a base. For example: Southpaw with runner on first. A pitcher has committed to throwing a pitch when his right leg "breaks the plane" created by his left leg perpindicular to the plate. A balk is usually called when it is noticeable that your knee twists instead of bends. If you look at the cleats durting a legit pickoff move, the cleats and/or back of shoe are the only parts of cleats facing ground during the step. In a balk, generally the side of the shoe facing the plate at the stretch position will face towards the ground initially during the step off the plate because the knee twisted and the cleats will will face towards second base. Also, the ump can look at the ankles. If the pitcher immediately crosses his ankles once he takes lead foot of ground, he has committed to the plate and can't do a pickoff throw. The pitcher also has to step first.
