Turns out Arizona border was/is not dangerous enough to warrant new law

thank you. That's very informative. The facts coming out in these situations are always a good thing.

 

Besides those violence statistics as I pointed out in another thread this law at its basis doesn't do anything that AZ police couldn't do before.

AZ police always could arrest someone on suspicion of another crime and turn them over to ICE if they thought they weren't here legally.

 

The problem is political for the GOP. Arizona used to be a thinly populated state with a lot of old Anglos. Phoenix has grown like crazy in the last 25 years and had an incredible housing boom. The immigrants go where the jobs are. The old elite feels threatened. They are trying like anything to avoid sharing power.
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...What moved GOP Governor Jan Brewer to sign the Soviet-style show-me-your-papers law is the exploding number of legal Hispanics, US citizens all, who are daring to vote -- and daring to vote Democratic by more than two-to-one. Unless this demographic locomotive is halted, Arizona Republicans know their party will soon be electoral toast. Or, if you like, tortillas.

In 2008, working for Rolling Stone with civil rights attorney Bobby Kennedy, our team flew to Arizona to investigate what smelled like an electoral pogrom against Chicano voters ... directed by one Jan Brewer.

Brewer, then Secretary of State, had organized a racially loaded purge of the voter rolls that would have made Katherine Harris blush. Beginning after the 2004 election, under Brewer's command, no less than 100,000 voters, overwhelmingly Hispanics, were blocked from registering to vote. In 2005, the first year of the Great Brown-Out, one in three Phoenix residents found their registration applications rejected.

That statistic caught my attention. Voting or registering to vote if you're not a citizen is a felony, a big-time jail-time crime. And arresting such criminal voters is easy: after all, they give their names and addresses.

Captives of Sheriff Joe's prison, Maricopa County, ArizonaSo I asked Brewer's office, had she busted a single one of these thousands of allegedly illegal voters? Did she turn over even one name to the feds for prosecution?

No, not one....cont

http://www.gregpalast.com/behind-the-arizona-immigration-lawgop-game-to-swipe-the-november-election/

 

What do you know, a thread about facts and somehow one whole side of this particular debate is missing. It's kind of weird, if by weird you mean not very surprising.

 

it may not be violent, but time and time again i have heard estimates as high as 4 million illegals cross from the border between mexico and arizona and new mexico, that is an extremely large number. if we have that many illegals residing in the area than it would account for such a strict policy. maybe they are sick of having their local hospitals and such shut down because too many illegals dont have the insurance to pay for medical procedures. i know thats what happened in my town.

 

That many illegals are also integral to your town's economy. They contribute to your tax base through sales taxes, property taxes, and they help keep your economy going by providing low cost labor. Presuming you live in one of the border towns along AZ and NM if not for illegals there are not likely going to be enough people there to build your houses, especially at affordable prices. There probably are not going to be enough people to shop at the local stores and use other businesses to keep the local economy going.

 

Just in the interest of fairness - I'm not in any way in favor of the draconian new law - Phoenix has become known as the kidnapping capital of the USA. But I'm sure the teabaggers are confused about whether this is good or bad, as the people getting kidnapped are pretty much all immigrants involved in nefarious activities.

(source)
[rquoter]
Criminals targeted in U.S. "kidnap capital"

Tim Gaynor
PHOENIX

(Reuters) - The criminal underworld in the sun-baked Arizona capital of Phoenix has long enjoyed the hot money profits from illicit smuggling of drugs and people over the border from Mexico.

But now its members are living in fear as they are stalked by kidnappers after their proceeds, authorities say.

Police in the desert city say specialized kidnap rings are snatching suspected criminals and their families from their homes, running them off the roads and even grabbing them at shopping malls in a spiraling spate of abductions.

"Phoenix is ground zero for illegal narcotics smuggling and illegal human smuggling in the United States," said Phil Roberts, a Phoenix Police Department detective.

"There's a lot of illegal cash out there in the valley, and a lot of people want to get their hands on it."

Last year alone, Phoenix police reported 357 extortion-related abductions -- up by nearly half from 2005 -- targeting individuals with ties to Mexican smuggling rings.

In addition, federal Immigration and Customs Enforcement police have also recorded cases of kidnappers snatching illegal immigrant day laborers off the street for ransom.

Agents have also recorded a growing number of "virtual kidnappings," in which abductors cold-call an immigrant's family falsely claiming that they are holding them hostage. The tactic is used frequently Mexico, where abduction is a lucrative and sophisticated industry.

BEATINGS AND TORTURE

Each year, hundreds of thousands of illegal immigrants are smuggled through Arizona from Mexico, most heading on to join relatives living and working in the shadows in towns and cities across the United States.

The desert state also straddles a furiously trafficked corridor for drugs, especially mar1juana, more than 400 tons of which were seized last year by the U.S. Border Patrol alone. Profits from the two crimes amount to billions of dollars.

Police say the kidnappers are most often Mexican criminals, sometimes helped by local street gangs in Phoenix. They single out cash-flush targets from among the drug traffickers and "coyotes" -- as human smugglers are known -- in the criminal community.

Cell members may trail identified targets for a couple of days, looking for the moment to pounce. Others may be asking around, looking for likely victims, often big spenders "who throw their money around" in bars and clubs, Roberts said.

Aside from the smugglers themselves, victims have included their wives, girlfriends and even children. They are often held in darkened rooms where they are routinely beaten, tortured or sexually assaulted to extort a ransom that can range from $50,000 to $1 million.

Police recordings of ransom calls reveal the kidnappers' brutality. In one 2006 call, the abductors had bound a victim with tape, placed him in a bathtub and called his ex-wife to demand money as they threatened him with a hacksaw.

"I want you to understand something. I have him in the bathtub right now and I'm about to cut his (expletive) hand off," the kidnapper says. "Which hand do you want? The left or the right?"

SNATCHED BY MISTAKE

The surge in kidnappings has earned Phoenix the tag of U.S. "kidnap capital" among law enforcement authorities.

ICE says the spike stems from tighter enforcement on the porous Arizona-Mexico border in recent years, which has made smuggling harder and load stealing, virtual kidnapping and targeted abductions a more attractive alternative.

The Arizona Department of Public Safety, ICE and Phoenix police work closely together to combat human smuggling rings, especially those that use violence.

Phoenix police also has a dedicated kidnapping team to tackle the growing wave of abductions, and officers say they are arresting more of the perpetrators.

Investigators say the activity remains largely contained within the criminal underworld in the city as a "bad guy kidnapping bad guy" activity.

But as the round of abductions continues across Phoenix, with as many as three kidnappings on one particularly busy day, police are concerned that innocent people will get hurt.

In one recent kidnapping, a 14-year-old girl from south Phoenix was mistakenly picked up on the street by a gun-toting snatch squad looking for the daughter of a known drug dealer. The girl was subsequently released by her captors.

"She happened to be standing outside in front of the home ... they grabbed her in broad daylight ... threw her in the vehicle and took off," said Roberts.

"Here is the perfect example of a young girl who has nothing to do with this, her family has nothing to do with this, she just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time."

[/rquoter]

The other thing, is that it is interesting how horribly ineffective the Maricopa county sheriff's department has become since Arpaio started his crusade. They were middle of the pack in terms of crime, but under Arpaio, crime rates have skyrocketed.

The immigrant communities won't deal with the sheriff. So what you've basically created is a giant swamp where nascent criminals can cut their teeth with impunity. So when these budding criminals have perfected their craft by victimizing immigrants too afraid to work with police, they can go out and feast efficiently on the white residents who voted to have the police concentrate on raiding the kitchen at Wendy's instead of solving violent felonies.

 

You know them dark folks make crime, don't give not stats cuz only Northern geeks like Daryl Morey uses them. Them dark people can't be allowed to just run loose.

 

Calling people you disagree with on political issues racists is so smart and not overdone at all.

 

I didn't comment because the facts here are totally irrelevant to the law IMO.

Maybe I'm naive, but I just don't understand what is so controversial about the cops being allowed to ask someone if they are breaking the law. If you want to debate whether the law is just or not, that's fine. But the law is the law and all the statistics in the world can't change that.

I think we need to decide to either open our borders or close our borders. This "well, it's officially illegal to be here undocumented......but if we suspect you're here illegally, we won't ask" philosophy doesn't make sense.

Also, calling anyone who simply wants the law to be enforced a RACIST is just weak and a cop-out.

 

Not a suprising statistic. The voice of the opposition is always louder than that of those who approve. Considering that any LEGAL immigrant is required by law to carry around proof of citizenship at all times, I dont see what the fuss is about for police to have the right to ASK for it now.

If your legally here, you should have your proof at all times, the only people who are worried about the law are ones who are not here legally.

 

Disagree there.

A lot of Mexican people (who have been here legally for generations) are worried that the police are going to be running around like the Gestapo asking everyone who looks Mexican for their papers. I just don't think that's realistic, which is why I don't have a problem with the new law.

 

With Joseph Arpaio as sheriff, are you sure?

 

I understand how you feel, I guess I just don't see the worry as much as you have. My wife's family is Mexican, and they just don't seem like they have an opinion one way or another on it.

I am sure there will be some ignorant law enforcement officer who turns away from protocol and ends up handling a situation horribly (and this is coming from a person in the profession) but until that day, I dont think it will be as big of a deal as it is made out to be now. Lets hope that day never comes though.

 

are they all living in Arizona?

 

I don't think that criminal danger is the only reason (or even the primary reason) cited for the new law. So, to me, saying it's not dangerous enough for the law isn't really the (primary) issue, I don't think.

One thing I'm not sure I agree with is this recent turn to "They (illegal immigrants) are not HURTING the economy here they're HELPING it" argument. Yes, I see the recent talking points of Clinton and the like (of course, Huckabee agrees, so that makes me wary immediately, personally) but it does ignore quite a bit as well.

I just wonder why no one has asked for help from the feds enforcing immigration laws that were already in place (maybe they have and it's just not news), rather than make new ones that are so controversial, aside from gaining political points... which may backfire in more ways than one.

 

Tucson

 

Thanks for the article though Oski!

 

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to B-Bob again.

this article seems very one sided -

the arizona rancher who recently got murdered by people running drugs through his property.

all the incidents of the mexican military crossing over here helping run drugs - over 200 times in the last 10 years.

sheriffs in texas confiscating drugs and themselves being held up at gunpoint and forced to turn the seized drugs back over.

the houston chronicle reported last month that mexican military helicopters have been flying a few miles into the united states and actually going over cities and towns.

if it was muslims doing this it would be a national outrage - we would have nuked half the middle east by now.