After reading yet another trade Steve thread it finally hit me... S&#t what if this really happens!! I mean all this time i have been able to ignore the threads because i felt that Steve will prove his worth to us (which i still believe and which he has already started doing, just watch out come playoff time) but all the threads finally caught up with me and I was like..How would loosing Steve change my feelings towards the Rockets.. The answer is this: The last four years Steve Francis has been the Rockets together with Cat. Who was the guy we knew would have to produce in order for us to get a win? Who was our only star? Who was the one giving us hope for the future? Who was the one giving it all every night to such a degree we were constantly worrying about him getting hurt? That's right that is our very own Steve Francis!!! So I have come to the conclusion that even though Steve Francis has not had the best year of his career and he may not be perfect, then he is a true Rocket and that counts in my book. He is giving this team an identity. Just like Hakeem was a rocket all the way through until he was washed up, I feel that Steve is a true rocket and that makes me want to root both for him and the team. I guess it´s a thing called loyalty that seems to be lost in modern sports. But we have a great player in steve who fights for the team every night so why not keep him and give some love instead. I am not in any way opposed to bringing in new players. I feel that both JJ and Spoon for example is showing themselves worthy to collect the pay checks they receive by hustling and playing within the system. From day 1 they have shown a very good attitude and I have no problem rooting for these guys. Over all I feel as if the players we have right now is talented and really want to win. They are not just playing for money and they have a feel for the team and the organisation. It´s a fine balance that could all be destroyed by bringing in some egomaniac like Rasheed or Payton or even Iverson. I don't want to root for such people they are the bad guys and I like rooting for the good guys. We are the good guys.. Think back to Rudy and Hakeem and all the others.. They were classy and talented and full of heart at the same time. The very things that made me become a rocket fan. These things should not be overlooked in a desperate shot at a championship should they??
what bothers me most about all these trade threads Is they remind me of the barkley trade and the pippen trade Seem DESPERATE and we should not be The Barkley Trade DESTROYED the Rockets future I LIKE BARKLEY he played hard but it cost us our youth Cassel and Horry I think could have been even better HERE That trade gutted out depth Chuckie Brown and Mark Bryant As Cassel said. . . if we would have just gotten Willis we would have been ok .. . we needed a PF then too to replace what we lost with Thorpe [ Drexler trade] Rocket River
I'm pretty sure JVG feels differently. As far as JVG is concerned, Steve's Rocket career began when JVG himself got there. I truly believe that JVG will look for alternatives in the summer and does NOT consider Steve untoucheable. That's not to say we'll trade him for sure - we may not find something suitable, or Steve may tear it up in the playoffs - but I really believe that our backcourt needs re-tooling, which doesn't necessarily mean trading Steve, but it's definitely a possibility. Remember, JVG, by default, doesn't carry as much loyalty to this group of players as Rudy did - he didn't build it. It's like coming into a new home that has a tree house. You wouldn't mind tearing it down, but the previous owner has memories that they wouldn't have wanted to get rid of.
Yes I guess you could compare the two situations even though Barkley actually did show humility and a willingness to give it all for us. But you are right about us loosing two players who we all still like to follow and deep within think of as Rockets players. Both Horry and Cassell would have been great to have all these years and they would now have been veterans who could show the young players what it takes to play in this league and what it means to be a Rocket! To have these players bring loyalty both from fans and players. That is why loosing Steve or Cat means more to me than just loosing their stats. I like these guys!!
Great post stra, If JVG saw what kind of negativity was written about Steve Francis around here on a daily basis, he'd probably change is mind about Steve, and keep him long-term. Jeff to me seems to be the type of person who likes chanllenges, and what greater challenge for him than to successfully reroute Steve's game into meshing with his inside outside approach, and at the same time sticking it to all of you bashers.. I say, so far so good. Open your eyes Houston, Steve Francis and the Rockets are on the rise.
You can't compare the SF3 trade threads with the Rockets' Barkley deal. The guys we gave up in that deal (Cassell and Horry) won championships. Not to discredit the role of a guy named Olajuwon, the point is that that particular mix of players worked -- they were tested and they were clutch. They were also role players. SF3 is not a role player. He's a star. And he's had troubling shining in this system offense so far. Yao's continuing development and Francis's recent adjustment have been promising. I'm optimistic about the future of the Rockets as currently constituted (with role players brought in). But if you want to compare it to the Barkley trade, then this time, we're basically Phoenix giving away a big star who's lost some of his luster.
JVG has said on more than one occasion that Steve was one of the main reasons he came to Houston. He wanted to help Steve develop into the player that he knows he can be. Do you all think that was just lip service? I mean JVG rarely says anything that he doesn't mean, hell he rarely says anything. I don't see Steve going anywhere unless he single-handedly causes us to lose our 1st round series this year.
Easy to say they were role players they WERE GROOMED some SF3 did not have that luxury . . . He did not play behind Kenny a few years etc These guys . . .CASSELL esp BECAME A STAR even if he is not credited. Steve has been TESTED Look at the squads over the last few years JORDAN would have had a hard time getting them to the playoffs Rocket River
Interesting way of looking at this. How many of ya'll were truly suprised that Steve played the way he did this season? Going from a run and gun, do it anyway you want system to a slow it down, throw it to Yao, halfcourt system is going to affect the event the best of superstars. Even though it shouldn't affect his shot that much, you just don't play well when you're not comfortable with a system. Bottom line: Even though Steve has had the worst season in his career, he still puts the most effort and shows the most heart on this team. He has had to change his game the most, and has struggled most of the time. Through all the criticism and scrutiny, he hasn't complained once about the season. We're going to make the playoffs and SF seems more comfortable with JVGs system every game. As RocketRiver put it, don't trade because it seems like the right thing to do, only trade if its the only way to go.
MY GOD! Where have all of you rational people been? Steve is my favorite player, so I am biased, but trading the guy as so many here (hell Clutch included) does not seem to me to be an answer. Unless you get back a McGrady or Pierce type player we will be losing talent. In my book, you don trade a franchise type player unless shiite hits the fan. Maybe I am wrong, but Steve has done everything that has been asked of him and aside from the Suberbowl has been the consumate pro.
I agree with the original poster - it seems that ever since Clyde came to town, Houston fans (and now Dallas fans have caught it) feel that every team is ONE BLOCKBUSTER TRADE away from greatness ! This mentality had carried over to the Astros as well bottom line, the best BLOCKBUSTER trades the Rockets had were the ones they DIDN'T make. In 1991, Hakeem wanted to be traded and didn't like Don Cheney - out with Cheney, in with Rudy T and a new system that "centered" around Dream in 1994 - we had the Chance to trade Horry... (we all know that result) the 1995 deal was about adding another great player to go with Dream - NOT simply adding another great player just to add a great player - (also, CD was a slasher and played just like Francios, abiet a taller SF3 - and he and Dream played FINE together !) so now its been one big deal after another (including a "trade" of the coach) - and it is finally paying off. This team is actaully very good. People who say that the Rockets are only in the playoffs because the Jazz gutted their teams - are weak. The Rockets have a better record than 22(??) other teams (including 4 playoff teams from the East) - what they need to do is gel these next few weeks, make some noise in the playoffs - then come out next year loaded !! no one wins a title their first year in the playoffs besides, another reason that people keep posting these different trade SF3 threads is that there is no single player out there that would actually be a better option
Great follow-up, RP. Houston IS on the rise. And I think it's no coincidence the success of late is paralelled by not only the assertiveness of Yao, but of the surgence of undeniable hustle and heart from Steve. His game has come to a point where you want the guy out there if only just because he's playing hard and bringing enrgy ... on both sides of the floor. Sure there's much room for improvement, but overall, it's quite a joy to watch this guy pretty much re-invent himself right before our eyes (a month ago Steve forces up a tough shot against Dallas in the final minutes ... Instead he lobs a nice pass up and away from defenders giving Yao an opportunity for the hoop and the harm). Tonight, Baron Davis will be stepping on the floor with full respect knowing that he's gonna have to play his @ss off to match not only the scoring threat, but also the intangibles and intensity Steve is gonna bring to the game. I give credit to CD and JVG for showing the patience that I admit to not having even weeks ago. I pray Steve sticks around and grows with this team into champions. It'll be great to add some more guns this off-season, but Steve is showing the makings of becoming a dangerous right-hand man to Yao.
This is our best record in years and I don't see why anyone would want to break the core of the team up.
You are right (I was living in Dallas then, and all the sports news in town revolved around Jimmy and Jerry) - now that I remember it, the problem with Cheney was that he was too close to some of the players (to the exclusion of others) or something like that - Dream had other issues ...but the parts about trading instead of building AND Drexler and Dream getting along despite the slasher/post-up playing styles, was my main point
If anything needs re-tooling, it's our front court. Hell, we don't even start any forwards! Let's focus on our REAL weakness, and stop scapegoating Steve just 'cause he's having a poor shooting season.
His point about Barkley is VERY valid, when it comes to all the possiblities of trading Steve. Good point, Stra ... The trade for Barkley was not just about whether the trade was a good one, player-wise, since it was probably a fair trade of players. Since Barkley and Drexler didn't get along, Drexler left a year or two before he should have. It was no longer fun for him. Even Quitten, with the stupid things he did, and his injured back, was not able to get along with Barkley, and felt that he didn't do what was necessary to win a championship. That was why he demanded to be traded. When it came to negotiating with McDeyss, he didn't choose us, because we didn't have a good PG. If Cassell was still here, he probably would have signed. If Cassell was still here, we wouldn't signed Maloney to that ridiculous contract. It is true, that if we'd have signed Willis, a lesser star, it would have solved our problems. I like Barkley, and he was a rebounding fiend, and took a huge paycut to sign Quitten, and he had a great sense of humor, but he wasn't good for our particular team, and it was the beginning of the end for us. Lookiing back, with 20/20 hindsight, one guy, who is not of the same character as the rest of our guys, made a huge difference, and not a good one. In 1996/97. we'd have had: Dream/Jones Horry/Willis/Harrington Drexler/Johnson/Bullard Elie/Mack/Threatt Cassell/Maloney/Price We'd have gone back to the Finals, I think. We were obviously worried about Seattle, but another year would have made us better, in my opinion. In 97/98, we'd have had: Dream/Willis/Jones McDeyss/Horry/Harrington Drexler/Johnson/Bullard Elie/Rhodes Cassell/Maloney/Price In 98/99, we'd have still had Drexler, so we wouldn't have signed Quitten, and more importantly, we'd have drafted Lewis, as we promised, knowing that Drexler's days were numbered. This team would have competed for the championship too. We'd have had: Dream/Carr/Roberts McDeyss/Horry/Harrington Drexler/Lewis/Mack Mobely/Dickerson Cassell/Maloney/Drew In 99/00, the big question would have been, would Francis have been willing to come to Houston, if Cassell was the PG. Would Cassell been wiling to move to SG? If he had, I believe we'd have challenged again. I think Francis would have rather played for a championship team than the perrenial loser Grizzlies, and this team WOULD have competed for the championship again. Dream/Hamilton McDeyss/Horry/Thomas Lewis/Bullard Cassell/Mobely Francis/Maloney/Drew All these bad contracts: Maloney, Quitten, Taylor, Anderson, Norris, Cato ... none of these guys would have been signed, and we wouldn't have gotten stuck in mediocrity. If they had pulled the trade with Toronto, and netted McGrady, Christie, Willis and the #5/12, we'd have had: Willis/Hamilton McDeyss/Horry/Thomas Lewis/Bullard Cassell/McGrady/Mobely Francis/Drew/Christie and with those 2 draft picks, added Shawn Marion and Ron Artest. What an insane team, and with cap room. We could easily have traded a couple of those guys for a good center, and we'd have continued to compete, without ever going down the tubes, just as San Antonio did. I know ths all sounds like woulda/coulda/shoulda and dreamcasting hindsight. But, we should learn from our mistakes, and gain wisdom of what we should do in the future. So, when we look at adding players, like Wallace, who has been lazy, regardless of how good he is, it DOES make a difference, and even though I've been positive about doing so, now that I examine it from this perspective, I think its VERY important, that whomever we add meshes well with Yao and Francis, and plays with intelligence and passion.
these are some of the most intelligent thought out entries that I have read on this BBS in some time. Gucci888 im with you 100% and tslee that was a great analogy.. we would be Phoenix giving away our big star.. people change as do our opinions (sometimes game to game) and I see SF3 making the transition from star to superstar and winning some championships with Yao! J
Couldn't have said it any better. We tend to blame SF because he is the leader (and he makes the most $$), but he isn't the real problem out there. The 3 guard, 2 center, system was a nice idea, but it's too risky, especially in the western conference. If any deal goes down this offseason, it should really be for a big 3 or a tough 4 with some offensive capability. 2 players that come to mind: R. Lewis and Sheed. It just seems that SF and Yao are developing a better relationship with every game they play.
Our backcourt needs re-tooling, our frontcourt is decent. You have complaints about JJ or Yao? The PF spot definitely needs to be stabilized and solidified, but I'm happy with the SF and C spots. In the backcourt, we need to get a PG and move Steve to the bench or the 2 when he's not able to initiate the offense efficiently. This would give Mobley and Francis some rest time, and assuming this guy is a good defensive player, we would actually be comfortable resting any of the 2. But it has to be a player that can really play all the backup backcourt minutes, thus making a real difference in the backcourt "culture". MJ is good, but he can't play more than 15 minutes a night, and moving Steve to the 2 would be a major defensive liability. Jeff McInnis, Eric Snow, or maaaaaaaaybe Brent Barry would be good. As for the frontcourt, we need to make some things happen. I think cato can be the backup 4/5 next season, while we have to turn MoT and the exception into a PF and a PG. Weatherspoon will be the reliable hardworker we'll keep around. Maybe we could sign McInnis. I'd love to see us chasing Juwan Howard. Maybe they'll take Cato straight up? Then we can swap MoT for Antonio Daniels and Jerome James? Then we'd have a new look: Yao/James Juwan Howard/Weatherspoon JJ/AG/Boki Mobley/Francis/Pike Francis/McInnis/Daniels (IR) We'd also still have the 6.9M exception to work with. We could try bringin in a SF, maybe something like Jonathan Bender for a portion of the exception? Leaving us with this: Yao/James Juwan Howard/Weatherspoon/Bender JJ/Bender/AG/Boki Mobley/Francis/Pike Francis/McInnis/Daniels (IR) I'd love to see those teams on the floor.
