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Try to get Francis, keep Battier, trade Alston and Lucas - possible destinations?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by AroundTheWorld, Jul 13, 2007.

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  1. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Member

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    First of all, to me, it is really important that we keep Battier. All the tangibles and intangibles aside, he is a very smart player and I think it is a good thing to have a team with an above average IQ out there.

    I really think we should get rid of the following players:

    Alston
    Lucas
    Reed

    If the offer is right, I think we should also not really hesitate to move Head (too short, cannot dribble, not a good defender - but could be our most valuable trade asset because of his three-point shooting) and Snyder (really athletic, but not too bright).

    I think we need to look for teams who need a point guard, and we should get some more depth in the frontcourt.

    My plan would be:

    1) Convince Francis to come back to Houston. Promise him 30+ minutes. Despite his weaknesses, I think he is way, way better than Alston and also better than Mike James. Getting a player like Francis for little money would be an absolute steal. Marc Stein just named us one of the "top contenders" for Francis' services:

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=stein_marc&id=2935125

    2) Trade Alston and Lucas to one of the teams who desperately need a point guard. Two teams which come to mind from what I can see are Cleveland and Denver. Denver might re-sign Blake, but I think they still need someone else. Cleveland is actively looking for a point guard, while they apparently are willing to trade one of their big men.


    a) Denver scenario

    Obviously, if we could somehow pry Camby from Denver's hands, I think it would be huge. I'd even be willing to throw in a first-round pick for that, too (as that pick would probably/hopefully be a late first-round pick anyway).

    There are numerous reports that Denver has been shopping Camby (e.g., "Denver is reportedly shopping Marcus Camby, the reigning Defensive Player of the Year...", http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070704/REPOSITORY/707040333/1007/SPORTS)

    A trade could look like this:

    Houston Trade Breakdown
    Outgoing

    John Lucas
    5-11 PG from Oklahoma State
    3.3 ppg, 0.8 rpg, 0.7 apg in 8.2 minutes

    Bob Sura
    6-5 from Florida State
    No games yet played in 2006/07

    Rafer Alston
    6-2 PG from Frenso State
    13.3 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 5.4 apg in 37.0 minutes

    Houston's first-round pick in 2008

    Incoming

    Marcus Camby
    6-11 C from Massachusetts
    11.2 ppg, 11.7 rpg, 3.2 apg in 33.9 minutes
    Change in team outlook: -5.4 ppg, +7.5 rpg, and -2.9 apg.

    Denver Trade Breakdown
    Outgoing

    Marcus Camby
    6-11 C from Massachusetts
    11.2 ppg, 11.7 rpg, 3.2 apg in 33.9 minutes
    Incoming

    John Lucas
    5-11 PG from Oklahoma State
    3.3 ppg, 0.8 rpg, 0.7 apg in 8.2 minutes

    Bob Sura
    6-5 from Florida State
    No games yet played in 2006/07

    Rafer Alston
    6-2 PG from Frenso State
    13.3 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 5.4 apg in 37.0 minutes
    Change in team outlook: +5.4 ppg, -7.5 rpg, and +2.9 apg.

    Houston's first-round pick in 2008
    Successful Scenario
    Due to Houston and Denver being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Houston and Denver had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

    Houston would do it because we want to win now and Camby would give us a huge defensive presence at the PF/C spots.

    Denver would do it because they would save a lot of money, improve their PG situation, Camby is injured a lot and is already 33 years old. Denver would also gain a first-round pick.

    Our roster would look like this:

    PG: Francis (22), James (18), Brooks (8)
    SG: T-Mac (24), Francis (8), Head (10), James (6)
    SF: Battier (26), T-Mac (12), Wells (10)
    PF: Camby (16) Scola (20), Hayes (12)
    C: Yao Ming (34), Camby (14)

    Bench/IR unless someone gets hurt: Novak, Mutombo, Butler, Snyder

    Not on the roster/still to be moved for picks, if possible: Reed, Landry

    If we could pull that off, I'd say we'd have a legitimate shot at a championship at least two years in a row. Camby's injury problems would not be a huge concern as we'd have Mutombo/Butler still there. Our depth would be unbelievable - even if Yao or T-Mac were to go down for an extended period of time, we should have enough depth to easily make the playoffs. A second unit of James, Head, Wells, Scola (Hayes), Mutombo would be strong enough to contend with some starting fives in this league.

    b) Cleveland scenario

    This one is possibly a bit more realistic than the Denver scenario. If Cleveland does not manage to get Bibby (it has been reported that they are trying hard to land him, offering Gooden, http://www.ohio.com/mld/ohio/sports/basketball/nba/cleveland_cavaliers/17490627.htm), they might go to plan B and trade Donyell Marshall (less valuable than Gooden at this point) for a lesser point guard than Bibby.

    A possible trade could look like this:

    Houston Trade Breakdown
    Outgoing

    John Lucas
    5-11 PG from Oklahoma State
    3.3 ppg, 0.8 rpg, 0.7 apg in 8.2 minutes

    Rafer Alston
    6-2 PG from Frenso State
    13.3 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 5.4 apg in 37.0 minutes
    Incoming

    Donyell Marshall
    6-9 PF from Connecticut
    7.0 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 0.6 apg in 16.8 minutes
    Change in team outlook: -9.6 ppg, -0.2 rpg, and -5.5 apg.

    Cleveland Trade Breakdown
    Outgoing

    Donyell Marshall
    6-9 PF from Connecticut
    7.0 ppg, 4.0 rpg, 0.6 apg in 16.8 minutes
    Incoming

    John Lucas
    5-11 PG from Oklahoma State
    3.3 ppg, 0.8 rpg, 0.7 apg in 8.2 minutes

    Rafer Alston
    6-2 PG from Frenso State
    13.3 ppg, 3.4 rpg, 5.4 apg in 37.0 minutes
    Change in team outlook: +9.6 ppg, +0.2 rpg, and +5.5 apg.


    Successful Scenario
    Due to Houston and Cleveland being over the cap, the 25% trade rule is invoked. Houston and Cleveland had to be no more than 125% plus $100,000 of the salary given out for the trade to be accepted, which did happen here. This trade satisfies the provisions of the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

    Cleveland would do it to make a change at their point guard position - apparently, they do not like Snow, Hughes is more of a SG, as well as Gibson. Also, Marshall is up there in age and did not perform well in the playoffs.

    Houston would do it to get rid of excess baggage at the PG position and to add some more frontcourt depth as well as a good three-point shooter.

    Our roster would look like this:

    PG: Francis (22), James (18), Brooks (8)
    SG: T-Mac (24), Francis (8), Head (10), James (6)
    SF: Battier (26), T-Mac (12), Wells (10)
    PF: Scola (20), Marshall (14), Hayes (14)
    C: Yao Ming (34), Mutombo (10), Butler (4)

    Bench/IR unless someone gets hurt: Novak, Snyder

    Not on the roster/still to be moved for picks, if possible: Reed, Landry


    What do you think about those dreamcasted scenarios? Any better ideas on how to still improve our PF/C position while getting rid of Alston, Lucas, Reed, Landry and possibly Head and Snyder? :)
     
    #1 AroundTheWorld, Jul 13, 2007
  2. ElPigto

    ElPigto Member
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    I doubt Head and Brooks will play this season if James and Francis are aboard. Wells will definitely play a lot more than 10 minutes at the SG spot, that's where he creates mismatches, SF's are too tall for him to dominate.

    Just my .02
     
    #2 ElPigto, Jul 13, 2007
  3. Guru

    Guru Member

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    I would have to agree on Bonzi, I'm sure he will play more than 10 minutes a game. Also, not sure its a good idea to have 2 shoot-first PGs running the show!
     
    #3 Guru, Jul 13, 2007
  4. aznhowie20

    aznhowie20 Member

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    dont have to convince sf with minutes... just tell him he can play video games and chill wit yao!!!
     
    #4 aznhowie20, Jul 13, 2007
  5. MLittle577

    MLittle577 Member

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    Francis and Camby would prove to be the perfect off-season. That being said, we are the Rockets, and the perfect off-seasons don't happen.
     
    #5 MLittle577, Jul 13, 2007
  6. Bogey

    Bogey Member

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    If we picked up SF, I'd prefer to dump MJ and keep Alston.
     
    #6 Bogey, Jul 13, 2007
  7. uchlha

    uchlha Member

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    no to the cleveland scenario
     
    #7 uchlha, Jul 13, 2007
  8. DonkeyMagic

    DonkeyMagic Member
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    let the francis dream, or more accurately nightmare, end.
     
    #8 DonkeyMagic, Jul 13, 2007
  9. khimmatramka16

    khimmatramka16 Member

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    if the rockets could get both, i know this would be the best off season ever. if the rockets could get francis, that will be great enough. same with camby
     
    #9 khimmatramka16, Jul 13, 2007
  10. anon3803

    anon3803 Member

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    That would be an awesome move if we can get Francis and Camby. Doubtful it would happen, but it would put us in serious contention.

    However, one difference I would have is to keep Landry on IR and use Reed, Snyder, or Novak to sweeten the deal and get Denver to jump on it. Snyder seems redundant with Francis and James as slashers, and Novak doesn't seem to be going anywhere. Landry has more upside IMO.
     
    #10 anon3803, Jul 13, 2007
  11. AroundTheWorld

    AroundTheWorld Member

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    You prefer Alston? Or James?

    I cannot see Alston playing a role in our future after Morey pretty bluntly said "we were exposed at the PG position in the playoffs".
     
    #11 AroundTheWorld, Jul 13, 2007
  12. RedRowdy111

    RedRowdy111 Member

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    1. Denver is going to sign Chucky Atkins today.

    2. Cleveland is in talks with the Kings to get Mike Bibby.

    3. Denver would never take Alston, plus crap for Camby

    :confused:
     
    #12 RedRowdy111, Jul 13, 2007
  13. leebigez

    leebigez Member

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    all i'm goignt o say about francis is, forget what he did as a rocket, thats in the past. I've said all along that he will not be a good old player. right now, he's a old player that isn't any good. I watched him in orlando and ny and his explosion is gone because of his knees, his defense is less than what rafer does and he still makes poor decisions with the ball. That being said, if they could get him cheap, i'm all for that, but people will be disappointed in what he is now. I think he still can finish at the basket, but getting to the basket is his problem now.
     
    #13 leebigez, Jul 13, 2007
  14. bingsha10

    bingsha10 Member

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    If we got Francis, I don't think we'd want to use him as point guard..... that's the place all his bad tendencies (over dribbling, etc) would screw us up.

    The only thing he brings that we really need is the slashing and getting to the rim aspect so if we do pick him up we'd be better off getting rid of Luther Head than James or Alston.

    Alston will do just fine as a backup PG.
     
    #14 bingsha10, Jul 13, 2007
  15. Sooner423

    Sooner423 Member

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    If Miami misses out on Mo Williams and Steve Blake, that could be a possible destination for Rafer. Haslem or J-Will's big expiring would be very nice.
     
    #15 Sooner423, Jul 13, 2007
  16. RedRowdy111

    RedRowdy111 Member

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    Rockets should get Francis for min. $ and let him play SG, behind T-Mac
     
    #16 RedRowdy111, Jul 13, 2007
  17. Xerobull

    Xerobull ...and I'm all out of bubblegum
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    Obviously you take Camby if you can get him for alston and scrubs. But even if that did happen, Scola wouldn't come here to be a backup.
     
    #17 Xerobull, Jul 13, 2007
  18. ooliverb1

    ooliverb1 Member

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    Ding!
     
    #18 ooliverb1, Jul 13, 2007
  19. anon3803

    anon3803 Member

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    Are you just looking at his ppg stat or something? There were two or three stretches of 4-5 games last season (before and after his injury) where he averaged 20+ points. He certainly can still score when asked to. There were also games where he played alot of minutes, but didn't take many shots. I think his sporadic play is because of coaching issues and Isiah more than anything else.

    Also, it was just a few seasons ago in Orlando that Francis was one of the top 10 defensive PGs according to statistics. Obviously statistcs aren't everything, but to put him lower than Alston's defensive ability is ridiculous.
    http://www.82games.com/rosenbaum3.htm
     
    #19 anon3803, Jul 13, 2007
  20. Laozi

    Laozi Member

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    Yeah, I don't think Denver would be too happy with that trade. I could imagine the questions at the pressconference. The reigning DPOTY for what? Have you lost your mind?

    I guess stranger things have happened, but I can't think of any off hand.



    The other trade is horrible for us. Have you seen Marshall play lately? If you thought Boozer had an easy time with Hayes, then we'd really be doing the PFs in the Western Conference a big favor.


    I'm not totally opposed to sigining Francis, but the more I think about it, the worse it seems. Yeah he'll give you alot of 20+ point nights, but his man will be able to get into the lane at will, getting Yao and co. into foul trouble. Plus hes a knucklehead, and we already have Bonzi.
     
    #20 Laozi, Jul 13, 2007
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