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'Tracy is better than Kobe'...NBA head coach

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by bestgao, Jan 24, 2006.

  1. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Member

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    You should also mention the three different seasons that McGrady carried possibly the worst roster in NBA history to the playoffs, winning Doc Rivers "Coach of the Year" honors.

    I guess Kobe will finally have a chance to make the playoffs this year (although it's still not a lock), and he missed it badly last season.

    McGrady is one of the few perimeter players in this league (along with Iverson) that have proven they could carry a team by themselves to the playoffs -- Of course, once you get into the playoffs it's a different story, you actually need talent to win. Lebron had Big Z and missed it the past two seasons, including an improbable collapse at the end of the season last year to blow an all-but-assured playoff spot. Kobe had one shot last season without Shaq (but with an all-star caliber talent in Lamar Odom) and didn't make it, but he has a chance to redeem himself this season.

    Say all you want about that 03-04 season, but his track record in Orlando indicates that season was a fluke, not the norm.

    But you can convenientlly forget that if you want...
     
    #41 tigermission1, Jan 25, 2006
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2006
  2. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    my point is it happened. its like the season that we're all not supposed to talk about on this site. everyone points out Kobe's flaws to make the point that T-Mac is better, but you conviently forget T-Mac's flaws which has included on more than one occassion complaining about his teamate's talent level.


    Worst playoff roster in NBA history is a little extreme.
     
  3. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Member

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    No, I am not forgetting his 'flaws' because every player in this league has his. And by the way, I didn't say he's a better player, I said I would take him on my team before Kobe any day of the week, because given the right pieces he absolutely does make his teammates better. It's no coincidence that our team can't win a freakin' game without this guy (14-10 with him and 0-16 when he can't finish games). The guy is not relied on to be only a scorer, he's the facilitator of the entire offense, he's the guy that will give his teammates the chance to succeed and wants Yao to be the greatest center in the league, not fight him as if he was the enemy (Kobe/Shaq relationship). He's one of the most coachable superstar in the league -- see Kobe/Iverson for reference. He improves the effeciency of everyone around him, and his teammates feed off his playmaking abilities. Yet, when it's time to take over games offensively and be a ballhog (be Kobe-esque) he recognizes that and steps his game up to another level. One big advantage he has over Kobe is 'recognition'. He recognizes there are times to be a ballhog and other times to pass and play within the game plan.

    I am not bashing Kobe, unlike some others here, because I do believe he's a great player. I am just telling you that I believe McGrady is a better player to build your team around, and there is a player I would also tell you that I believe is better than both guys if I could choose one player to build a team around (Tim Duncan that is).

    So, that's the discussion here. It's no "who's the better talent", it's who is the more ideal team player.

    If you noticed, Tim Duncan barely averages over 20ppg on any given season, and he's slightly fragile on the injury front. However, he's a great teammate and vastly improves the level of everyone he plays with. If Nash was a few years younger, he would also be a great building block; a younger Jason Kidd would be a very reliable franchise player as well.

    I just think that Iverson and Kobe are two similar players in the sense that their games require no one around them to share the ball with, they both need blue-collar gritty players who play top-notch defense and play their roles to a perfection (it's no coincidence that the only season Iverson's Philly team had any sort of success in the playoffs was the year with Snow/McKie/Lynch/Mutombo, guys who were ideal role players and excellent defenders).

    Also, I am not saying that can't change, that either Kobe or AI can't change their games to fit the team game, because they're both phenomenal talents and high-IQ ballers, I am just telling you that so far, they haven't shown any inclination to do so. But as with all things, people/players change. McGrady changed, he wasn't the same guy he is now. Yao will change and has shown change over the past few years, Lebron will change, etc.
     
  4. zhao1109

    zhao1109 Member

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    TMAC and most HOU fans think TMAC better then KOBE, that's it.
     
  5. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    I think you guys are overrating T-Mac's ability to make people around him better. T-Mac like most superstars need a right mix of players around him. just looking a last season, you guys also forget how bad that team was at the beginning of the season before they shipped MoTaylor and Jim Jackson out of Houston. there was a reason the team got off to such a bad start, because that was a bad mix for t-mac.

    the duncan comparison is pretty ridiculous. Duncan makes people better because he puts pressure on defenses to double him, something t-mac doesn't do, something even Kobe has him beat in because Kobe doesn't settle for as many jumpshots. Duncan maes his team better defensively because of his mere presence in the middle of the lane, neither Kobe or T-Mac does that.
     
  6. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Member

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    When the heck did I compare McGrady's game to Duncan's? I said if I had to pick one player to build a team around today it would be Tim Duncan, I didn't say his game was similar to McGrady's or Kobe's. Even if you wanted to, you can never compare a big man to a swingman, it would be incredibly stupid to do so. In almost all cases, a great big man is more valuable than a great swingman, because a big man can always affect the game more with his inside defense and inside presence.

    Also, Duncan is great but he's rarely doubled anywhere near the frequency that -- say -- Yao is, I have watched more than enough San Antonio games to know that. He makes his team better for a variety of reasons, chief among them is the fact that he's a TEAM player and could give a **** about his personal stats, he's only interested in what the coach tells him to do to win. He's an incredibly humble guy and a breath of fresh air compared to some of the superstars in this league. He's the Hakeem Olajuwon of this generation.

    So again, read my posts carefully before you reply, I am not dumb enough to compare a big man to a swingman. In most cases, you need both: a dominant swingman and a dominant big man who plays inside (the anti-Nowitzki, that is). There's a reason why we are building our team around Yao and McGrady, not one or the other. If the goal is to win a championship, you need both, no question about it. The Bulls were the only exception in the history of the NBA, that's why MJ was the greatest of all time and Pippen was the greatest 2nd fiddle of all time, but again that team was the exception not the rule.
     
  7. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    You implied that McGrady is a great teamate like Duncan and kobe and Iverson aren't. And Iverson has been an MVP and to the finals on a team built around him.
     
  8. carolbmt

    carolbmt Member

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    pgabriel, this is not an accurate statement. T-Mac is usually double teamed, when possible. Some coaches don't double T-Mac until the end of a game so they can try to "throw him off".
     
  9. tigermission1

    tigermission1 Member

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    That's right, that doesn't mean I compared their skills or their playing styles; they're apples and oranges, you can't compare big men to guards.

    On the Iverson front, you just made my case, that's exactly what I have been saying. I think Philly would do best to replicate that team that went to the Finals, because IVerson wasn't forced to share the ball then and that's how he plays at his best and his team will have the most success. I think the only way Kobe can co-exist and succeed with another star player is if he's clearly the first option, and there isn't a power struggle of some kind. Shaq was such a dominant force and the guy that franchise put their hopes and dreams on his shoulders, he was with the Lakers before Kobe was, and a veteran most dominant player in the league, so Kobe couldn't really bully him or push him over, until he pushed him out of town for good. Any other star player in this league, and that won't work. Kobe needs to be the undisputed 'man' or otherwise it just won't work; he needs a Pippen-type of player who understands and plays his role while understanding that he's the 'sidekick'.
     
  10. bestgao

    bestgao Member

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    With Kobe on that team, the record could be much worse.

    When Paton & Malone came to LA, I was more worrying about Paton to be the team chemistry destroyer. It turned out Paton was like a saint compared with Kobe.
    Kobe could make a team with 4 potential HOFs look like a third-tier team.
    Put Tracy on that Lakers team, they could win at least 3 more rings.
     
  11. Easy

    Easy Boban Only Fan
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    Um, defenses don't double T-Mac? :confused:
     
  12. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    One of the things that bothers me about the kobe bashing is this notion that him wanting to be "the man" is a bad thing. I think one of the pluses Kobe has over McGrady is that he relishes the spot light, he relishes the challenge of putting a team on his back. T-Mac is wishy washy on this front. He continues to talk about putting the Rockets on his back, but one of the reasons he is a rocket is because he didn't want to put Orlando on his back.

    On the other hand, I do think Kobe not fully excepting to be Shaq's sidekick is a negative. But the fact is, even though Kobe may have hated that role, it worked. and that's the bottom line. Kobe has proven he can work wit another star, now he is trying to prove he can do it on his own.
     
  13. zhao1109

    zhao1109 Member

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    Kobe is quicker than TMAC this season, due to TMAC's back injury
     
  14. MR. MEOWGI

    MR. MEOWGI Contributing Member

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    I hate Kobe. Tmac Rules.
     
  15. apostolic3

    apostolic3 Member

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    Many, including myself, believe Kobe takes the "wanting to be THE MAN" thing too far, to the point that it's detrimental to the team. Sometimes I wish Tracy was a stronger leader but the last few games have shown me something. Unlike Kobe, Tracy actually makes his teammates better because they know he will find them if they work to get open. If a healthy Tracy was on the Lakers, I betcha nobody in LA would be whining about how inconsistent Odom is from game to game, and how he seems to play better when Kobe is out. On offense, Tracy would mesh with Odom in short order because Odom is a classic, multi-skilled 2nd option player in the mold of Pippen. Someone like Tracy or Wade would bring out the best in him.
     
  16. TMac640

    TMac640 Contributing Member

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    the notion that orlando is a winning franchise is silly as well :)


    ....

    as always, magic fans have no opinion
     

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