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[Track] Bolt vs Gay

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout' started by Faos, Aug 16, 2009.

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  1. SamFisher

    SamFisher Contributing Member

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    I remember back in the 80's and 90's the 100 meter record was a big deal, and when it was broken it would be maybe move down 1/100 of a second or so.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Men's_100_metres_world_record_progression

    Look at the progression of the men's WR on the wiki page, as one would expect, the curve follows a parabolic L-type shape for most of it, then all of a sudden Bolt comes along and the bottom drops off and logic is out the window. Seems too good to be true, and it's not like you can blame new swimsuits like for swimming.
     
  2. Dr of Dunk

    Dr of Dunk Clutch Crew

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    I must've forgotten to hit submit because I could've sworn I posted this same thing - or maybe I was just thinking it. I mean seriously, has training and exercise come so far in the past 10-15 or so years that the records a doped-up Maurice Greene, Ben Johnson, etc. set are left in the dust by these "clean" guys? Heck, the doped runs of Tim Montgomery and Justin Gatlin from just a couple of years ago are getting dusted.

    I'm going to say he's innocent until proven guilty, but damn!
     
  3. BasketballReasons

    BasketballReasons Contributing Member

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    fixed
     
  4. King1

    King1 Contributing Member

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    Thanks for the link. That really is astounding. I completely agree with your sentiments on how breaking the record for the 100 used to be a big deal. Now, we have a guy in Bolt, who can stretch his lead enough to showboat on his way to an Olympic Gold Medal. People were actually expecting him to shatter the record. It's really scary to think of how PED's have evolved and the results they can produce.
     
  5. cheshire

    cheshire Contributing Member

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    Bolt is not human.
     
  6. KingCheetah

    KingCheetah Contributing Member

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    It's similar to Bob Beamon's record in that no one will come close for a long time. You get the sense though Bolt could break his own record a few more times and push it to the high 9.4's, which of course is just crazy.
     
  7. 3814

    3814 Contributing Member

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    Eric Liddell ran a 10.00 in 1924. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Liddell

    And with electronic timing Jim Hines ran a 9.95 in 1968.

    Why is it so hard to imagine with the improvements in health and training that a guy could knock 0.4-0.5 seconds off that time 85 years (or 41 years) later without cheating?
     
  8. yaoluv

    yaoluv Member

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    half a second doesn't sound like a lot
    but in the 100m it is huge. watch the race, everybody except the last place person was within half a second of Bolt, but he was so far ahead
     
  9. Dr of Dunk

    Dr of Dunk Clutch Crew

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    Liddell ran the 100 yard dash in 10.00. A value of 100 yards at 91 meters is almost 10% less of a distance than 100 meters. We're talking about a 10.8-11.0 100m run (assuming somewhat of a linear relation, which I know isn't the case, but still). That's not impressive at all by today's standards - women's records have been around there since the late 60's and 70's, and they consistently run in the high 10's and 11's now.

    It's not that there shouldn't be improvement, but it took 15 years to go from Jim Hines' 9.95 to Calvin Smith's 9.93 (I still remember watching that run). After that, started the steroid craze, but supposedly legitimately, the record was brought down .01-.04 every 3-4 years. This is still reasonable. The doubters are raising questions now because Bolt is destroying times set by sprinters who were on drugs and running 9.7's and who ran doped up in just the last 3-7 years.

    Maybe Bolt is a genetic freak, but he's a freak who goes FAR beyond even mortals hyped up on PED's from a few years ago. This is what makes people wonder. The last time we saw 100 WR's getting wrecked like this was probably Ben Johnson, right?
     
  10. RedRedemption

    RedRedemption Contributing Member

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    In every sport somebody comes along that makes you think they are cheating in their respective sport. Tiger Woods, Michael Jordan, Jerry West, Muhammad Ali, etc.

    But they are just that good.
     
  11. Dr of Dunk

    Dr of Dunk Clutch Crew

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    Hey, I'm not going to say he's drugged up until somebody busts him, but for every MJ and Tiger Woods, there's a Barry ... err... I mean... Rafael Palmeiro, Sammy Sosa or Mark McGwire. They were just that good until we found out they really weren't. In track, there was Ben Johnson. He turned out to be not that good.

    I used to love following track back in the 80's and early 90's. Then the Ben Johnson mess started happening and I gave up on it just like I've given up on the MLB (no matter how much I try to get back into it). I tried getting back in again and was slapped with Maurice Greene, Marion Jones, etc. I wanted Bolt to destroy the record. I knew he could, but Lord, even I thought that was crazy. lol.
     
    #71 Dr of Dunk, Aug 17, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 17, 2009
  12. rezdawg

    rezdawg Contributing Member

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    But the guys you listed play in sports that require much more than God given athletic ability. Yes, sprinting takes practice and work ethic, but not on the level of basketball or golf...it takes years to develop the talent and skill to play those sports at a high level, on top of the natural ability.

    Sprinting would be similar to high jumping...there is only so much skill you can develop...the majority of your success in those sports is natural ability that you were born with. For instance, I bet that Bolt has always been fast...sure, training has helped him get to where he is, but his muscles have to be built in a way that allows him to fly.

    In sports like sprinting or weightlifting or high jumping, you expect to see gradual improvements over time, as humans become stronger and faster as a result of evolutionary improvements in our bodies. However, you wont see improvements in free throw shooting or field goal kicking over time, because that is a skill that needs plenty of development and has little to do with what skill set you were born with.
     
  13. Pest_Ctrl

    Pest_Ctrl Member

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    I guess I have to say innocent until proven guilty. Maybe Bolt is just a genetic freak that happened to excel in sprinting. IIRC he is 6'6 or 6'7, and not a lot of people that high has been great in 100m. Think about Yao, he was way more coordinated than any other 7'5+ man we have ever seen.

    As a side note, Gay's 9.71 would have been the world record had he run 18 months ago. :eek: I guess Bolt just brought the best out of him.
     
  14. rockbox

    rockbox Around before clutchcity.com

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    When is was there ever a guy this big that was an elite runner. The reason bolt is so fast is because his stride is so much longer while still maintaining the same cadence. He is a freak of nature. Its hard to imagine how much faster he is than everyone else without thinking he is cheating. However he could just be that once in a century type athlete like Phelps or Shaq.
     
  15. Dr of Dunk

    Dr of Dunk Clutch Crew

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    Yeah, but if the analogy were to hold true in Yao's case, he would be destroying Wilt's scoring records or be more dominating than Shaq was in his prime. What Bolt did was beyond anything any human of any stature has done - drugged or otherwise.


    When the doped-up Ben Johnson set the WR at 9.79, Carl Lewis came in second with an American record of 9.92. :)

    BTW, for any track fans out there - do you think Flo Jo was doping? How many years do you expect those 100m and 200m records are going to stand?
     
  16. A_3PO

    A_3PO Member

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    Flo Jo doping isn't even a debatable point IMO.
     
  17. baller4life315

    baller4life315 Contributing Member

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    Plenty suspect that she was given how she retired one year before mandatory drug testing was implemented. Ahhh, I don't know. She stood out the same way Marion Jones and others have, yet unfortunately most track athletes that stand out like that tend to stand out for a reason. [Insert: Usain Bolt comment]

    But for Flo Jo.......

    Fastest 100M time pre-1988: 10.96
    1988 Olympics Trials 100M time: 10.54 WR
    1988 Olympics 100M time: 10.62

    Fastest 200M time pre-1988: 21.96
    1988 Olympics 200M time: 21.34 WR

    That's tough to explain.

    I just pray that track athletes that I idolize like Bolt, Mo Greene, Michael Johnson and Jeremy Wariner are all clean. Especially Jeremy Wariner since he's exactly like I was when I ran. Well, not exactly -- MUCH faster, but the same in the sense that we're both fast, skinny white boys that did the same events. If he's on steroids I won't know what to think.
     
  18. Dr of Dunk

    Dr of Dunk Clutch Crew

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    I don't know if this has been mentioned, but Tyson Gay pulled out of the 200m due to his lingering groin injury, but said he would focus on the 4x100m. I'm guessing it's a foregone conclusion that Bolt is going to win that one.


    baller4life315,

    I hear you. I used to follow track from the high school level up. I don't follow it much anymore unless there's a great rivalry, but even then, the first thing that enters my mind is "I wonder who's using what?" Sad, but true.

    There are certain body types that always freak me out on the track. When I saw Ben Johnson I thought there was something freakishly wrong with that dude. He looked to be built like a rhino, not a 100m guy. I thought the same about Flo Jo. But then you see the Marion Joneses of the world and see they don't all have to look like hulks to be cheating, so who knows.

    As for Flo Jo's times and their miraculous progression, I don't think Bolt had ever run a sub-10 second 100 before 2008, but then he's still young, I guess, and he didn't start out or train as a 100m guy.
     
    #78 Dr of Dunk, Aug 18, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2009
  19. baller4life315

    baller4life315 Contributing Member

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    I could sit here all night listing reasons why what Bolt is doing is out-of-this-world ridiculous. One such reason that nobody seems to talk about is how Bolt is still relatively new to the 100M event. He only started running it competitively in July of 2007 -- less than a year before he made history at the Beijing Olympics. Two years later he shatters the world record. I mean, this shouldn't be happening.

    He's absolutely untouchable and seems to get better with each race. There are some pundits out there that gave me a good chuckle by labeling him "lazy" for opting not to train for the 400. Please. He's a competitor that's worked hard to get where he's at. Tyson Gay used to be better than him. Asafa Powell used to be better than him. Now look at them. Not only is he the best but his opponents know it. That psychological edge has to be suffocating for somebody like Gay.
     
    #79 baller4life315, Aug 18, 2009
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2009
  20. AroundTheWorld

    Supporting Member

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usain_Bolt

    He was 15 years old. He won the 200 m.

    "Bolt distinguished himself with a 200 m gold medal at the 2002 World Junior Championships, making him the competition's youngest-ever gold medalist"

    Before you go around fixing stuff (after your own inaccurate statement that nobody knew him until two years ago has been "fixed"), go check some facts. I've noticed you making dumb posts all over the place.

    Regarding the doping question - I doubt that ANY of the runners in that 100 m dash was clean.

    However, I think that the likelihood of Bolt being clean is higher than that of Lance Armstrong ever having been clean :p.
     

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