Could be. Barry Bonds just hit his 60th homerun. He could reach 70. If he wins the MVP again this year, that makes 4. Nobody has done that. He has 500 plus homeruns and next year, he will become the only man to have 500 homers and 500 steals. He has over 8 Gold Gloves. He could end up reaching 650 homers. Damn, is this guy great or what? I hate his attitude. But he is definitely the greatest player I have ever seen outside of pitchers. The only other person I can put on his level is Greg Maddux during my generation. Many people disagree with me putting Greg there. But when you win 15 games for 12 straight years, 4 straight Cy Youngs and coming in 2nd countless times and in the hunt again this year and not to mention Gold Gloves for the last 10 years, the man is right up there. Top 5 all around players in my generation: (Personal opinion, of course) 1) Barry Bonds 2) Greg Maddux 3) Ken Griffey until 1999. Then, insert Sammy Sosa here 4) Roberto Alomar 5) Roger Clemens I know I might forget some guys and this is debatable. But, from off the top of my head, I don't think I have seen better ALL AROUND players. I am not counting homerun hitters or power hitters who just DH. I am talking ALL AROUND. Just think of Olajuwon when people say Shaq is better now than Dream was then. Think ALL AROUND.
I agree with that list for present time. Bonds is the best out of those five love him or hate him he is the best. However, none of those 5 are one of the bests all time. Ruth, Mays, Mantle, Williams were all better than Bonds and Griffey. Koufax, Ryan, and Young were better than Clemens. Plus, I think that there are infielders that were better than Alomar. Alomar is really consistant and amazing but people could probably name some old timers that were better.
I think ranking players "all-time" is an exercise in futility. The game has just changed too much. And players have improved overall. New pitches, wait training, etc. Top 5 since I've been a baseball player: 1. Barry Bonds - Nobody else is even close, in reality. 2. Greg maddux/Roger Clemens - Maddux had a better peak, but Clemens has had a longer career and had to play in a real hitter's park in Fenway. I think Maddux will be remembered as better because he's younger and should surpass Clemens. 3. Alex Rodriguez - His production at SS is simply unreal. Statistically, he's a good bit better than Garciaparra (injury reasons) or Jeter (not even close). If his career continues on its current trajectory, he'll end up as a legend. 4. Ken Griffey - He's declined, but he was the complete package for a long time, taking walks, hitting for average and power, and playing D.\ Other notables: Barry Larkin, Roberto Alomar, Jeff Bagwell, Mark McGwire, Rickey Henderson, and Nolan Ryan
Top 5 in my generation: 1.Pedro 2.Bonds 3.Griffey 4.Maddux 5.Ripken So many more I wanted to include, especially Tony Gwynn.
Almu- I'm not a fan of Bonds at all and it is tough to compare players from different generations. I would argue that the 2 best players of the current generation are Bonds and Clemens. But that is also my opinion. My next class of players from this generation are Piazza, McGwire (just because he changed the game, not because he is a great all-around player), R. Alomar, A-Rod, Ripken, Sosa and Griffey. All of these guys may be remembered as the best at their position, except for McGwire and Sosa who will b remembered for their power. I think an argument can be made for Barry being a top 5 all-time player (not including pitchers), although I think many will deny him because of his attitude and sometimes lazy play on the field (no effort in chasind down apparent homerruns, sometimes lazy out of the box when he thinks he is out). But he has been a dominant force for a very long time. I still like Willie Mays and the way he played and had fun. Henry Aaron, Lou Gehrig, Joe D, Ty Cobb, and on and on. Their is so many great players but I think Barry has a case simply because he was the best position playe rof his time.
DAMN! I forgot about Tony. He is right there also. The man was great all around. Gold Gloves. Hitting titles like they were going out of style.
I know that some of y'all are young like me. But, you think that those pitchers are better than Ryan? I don't. I don't think Pedro will even match up to Ryan when his career is over with.
1. Greg Maddux 2. Barry Bonds 3. Roger Clemens 4. Ken Griffey Jr. 5. Tony Gwynn also ran... Randy Johnson Jose Canseco Mark McGwire Cal Ripken Jr. Mike Piazza Pudge Rodriguez Wade Boggs Sammy Sosa Pedro Martinez Dwight Gooden
Nolan Ryan was a great strikeout pitcher, had a very long career, but never dominated like Clemens and Maddux. I mean, in an age of hitters, Maddux managed back-to-back seasons with an ERA under 2. Simply phenomenal. Ryan had a career that was far better than the average pitcher. He's deservedly a first-ballot HOFer... but his control problems kept him from being like Maddux/Clemens/Pedro. Incidentally, I didn't list Pedro because I want to see if he'll get past his injury problems first.
NObody has Pudge in their top 5 ALL AROUND players in modern times? Maybe it's his injuries...... Also, can a pitcher be included in an "all-around" debate? Maybe. It's just pitcher's fielding their position isn't rated too often.
absolutely dumbfounded houston's own jeff bagwell hasn't at least merited a mention. top five all-time...? no. (though, if sammy sosa is a qualifier, then so, too, is bagwell). but bagwell will likely go down as the nl's best-ever first baseman, and he's had a better career than ken griffey, jr. (tho, admittedly, at an easier defensive position). bonds, clemens and maddux are pantheon-eligible, no doubt about it, and bonds could, arguably, lay claim to best-ever. he truly is that good.
I know he's not the greatest defensive player around, but he's a certain HOF in my namesake, Manny Ramirez. How many other active players have had as many 100+ RBI seasons like this guy has had? One year, I think he had 165 RBIs, which is just insane for our generation.
Ric: I mentioned Bagwell . Manny: RBIs are mainly a function of opportunity. When you play for Cleveland, you'll get those in abundance .
yep, sorry -- you sure did. and good call on henderson. like bonds, he battles off-the-field perceptions, but between the lines... he's the best lead-off hitter of all-time, and the second best LF of our time.
Pedro Martinez is the most dominant player I've ever seen anywhere. Right now he's pitching with a slight tear in his rotator cuff and he has a 2.22 ERA. Just ridiculous...
He doesn't play for Cleveland this year and he has around 115 RBIs. Yes, he was fortunate to be on some great hitting Indian teams, but for anyone to say that this year's Red Sox is a great hitting team when Nomar missed practically the whole season and Everett has been hurt is crazy. I guess that's why they scored a total of 4 runs in 5 games last week. He has had freakin' Troy O'Leary batting behind him for most of the pre-all-star break. Yet, he still carried the team's offense single-handedly. The bottom line is the man is a RBI machine who would produce 100 or more RBIs for the D-Rays.
Manny: Yes, but 115 RBI's is about in-line with what an extremely good hitter will have. RBI's are not a direct statistic. That is to say, they don't measure performance directly. They're dependent on externalities. Measure a hitters value by things like OBP, slugging %, RC/27, OPS, etc. Ramirez is a fantastic hitter. I just disagree that having a lot of RBI's is very meaningful. Look at Bonds v Sosa... Bonds has been a substantially better hitter, but Sosa has more RBI's. Perhaps Sosa is just more "clutch?" Wrong. Bonds has been hitting better with Runners in Scoring Position.
Ugggghhhh again with the misleading All-Time 1. Babe Ruth 2. Ty Cobb 3. Ted Williams 4. Lou Gehrig 5. Cy Young 6. Joe DiMaggio 7. Willie Mays 8. Hank Aaron 9. Mickey Mantle 10. Lefty Grove
I wish I was like Cat and can quote stats to you, but I'm not plus I'm lazy. I agree that OPS, batting average with runners in scoring position, and slugging % are important, but I don't know if they are significantly more important than RBIs just like I don't know if they are significantly more important than batting average or homeruns. Haven, remember Dave Kingman? Or better yet, Rob Deer? They were the poster childs of sluggers who hit around 40 homeruns but struck out over 150 times and would be lucky to bat .200. Look at Ramirez: the guy is always batting .300 or better, hits around 40 or more homers, and drives in runs as well as anyone in our generation. The RBI record in a season by Hack Wilson which is 190 is one of those records that I feel will be very hard to break. However, Ramirez had 165 RBIs one season, and I believe in his last season in Cleveland he had like 120 RBIs in like 105 games!! Also, he has been one of the best this season when it comes to batting average with runners in scoring position and with 2 outs, and he's probably still in the top 10 in OPS and Slugging % despite the fact that he's been in a prolonged slump. You can come up with other stats, but you can't deny that being able to average more than a RBI a game is a pretty amazing feat. Hopefully, the new ownership will come in and get rid of Duquette and Manny can get his hamstring problem resolved. If these 2 things happen and he has some healthy teammates in Nomar and Everett, then watch out.
