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Toddler dragged into the water by an alligator at Disney

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout' started by HoustonTexas, Jun 15, 2016.

  1. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    I mean I don't think Disney is horrible because of this, but people in here who are attacking the parents are just being stupid.

    The idea that you would never let your two old get 3 feet away from you and would be holding their hand 24/7 is flat stupid. The idea that on a BEACH front you wouldn't let them walk in ankle deep water is also stupid. If that is how you would treat your kids they would never experience anything.
     
  2. DonnyMost

    DonnyMost be kind. be brave.
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    It is nature, but Disney has a responsibility to warn their guests of any inherent dangers on their property.

    That being said, if they swept that whole lagoon and found only 4 alligators, I'd say the alligator danger was really low compared to virtually everywhere else in Florida.

    I went to a hotel in Orlando that had a few creeks surrounding it and the accompanying golf course. There were clear signs posted warning of alligators and not to venture off the sidewalk/paths.

    Was I going to go romping around in the weeds? No. Would some unsuspecting tourist from Iowa who had never even seen an alligator in person go over there and try to get a photo of the sunset with their family? Quite possibly.

    Hell, I've actually been to the Grand Floridian itself. The lagoon is beautiful. It definitely did not seem like it was a landscape built to keep people away from it.

    I said this in the gorilla thread, and it seems just as appropriate here. America has a real problem with just accepting that sometimes bad things happen. But in this case, Disney could have been a mite more helpful in preventing this.
     
    1 person likes this.
  3. superfob

    superfob Mommy WOW! I'm a Big Kid now.

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    Funny some people compare this to the gorilla zoo incident.

    It's apparent what the dangers are of falling 20+ feet into a concrete pen with large wild animals.

    It's not apparent the dangers of being on a sandy beach inside a resort area with no fence or signs regarding wild animals.

    Disney will settle out of court because it'll be cheaper than a jury trial and less bad press. The incident will probably hurt Disney's future revenue more than the settlement amount anyways.

    Agree that some underwater mesh and a small rock wall for separation with alligator signs will probably suffice in terms of reducing future liability and making it safer for guests.
     
  4. MadMax

    MadMax Contributing Member

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    Completely agree with this. And I don't think Disney is going to run from the responsibility here. I'm reasonably certain they'll take care of the family....and look at what can be done to prevent this from happening again.
     
  5. Deji McGever

    Deji McGever יליד טקסני

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    I agree with this. Alligator attacks are a rare thing, Disney posted signs not to swim, and the kid wasn't swimming. It was a freak occurrence and I don't think anyone was guilty of negligence.
     
  6. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    Not what all of the "parents" were claiming in the shopping cart thread but OK. I guess locked in a parked SUV is less safe than in water at night.

    As a Disney lover I will add that while it might not apply to this death, going backstage is strictly forbidden. It is highly enforced and can and regularly does result in lifetime bans. Due to the nature of the park the backstage (off limit) areas are easily accessible but also dangerous.
     
  7. PhiSlammaJamma

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    Here is the list of attacks resulting in death. It is an interesting read as they give details. It is small, but most interesting is that 2 burglars were killed on the list. And of course your Texas dude who dared the alligator to attack him and it did. Although small, you'd have to argue that humans and alligators are not invited into close proximity all that often like they were here.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_alligator_attacks_in_the_United_States
     
  8. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    I think the no swimming thing is a bit dubious as a means to let Disney "off the hook".

    What if someone blew up a kayak and went kayaking out there and got taken by an alligator? Would we similarly be saying "he wasn't swimming"? In that case there'd be more weight to the "stupidity" of the person/parent argument.

    But I think it would at least technically still be correct to say "they weren't swimming".

    My point is, there's lot of tourist coming to this resort. American, foreigners. Mostly families. Mostly kids. Lots of people unfamiliar with alligators, how they behave, etc. If there are alligators in the water, you need a BIG FREAKING sign that says alligators in the water. You need the host checking you in to mention, hey, there's alligators in that water. You need educational materials on the alligators.

    And you probably need all of that in areas where they haven't plopped a beach right in front of this alligator lagoon. But when you freaking add a beach, chairs, the whole nine yards right in front of said lagoon, with immediate easy beach access, etc.

    Well, I'm not overly litigious, but how can you not blame Disney?

    I get that accidents happen. Accidents CAN also be PREVENTED. It's okay to question FBI procedures, gun laws, the guy's wife, etc. in the nightclub shooting. And its ok to question Disney here.

    My view, as a person, and a parent of young kids including a current two year old, is that the situation Disney created is absolutely moronic and puts them squarely at fault, even if this rarely happens. Once is enough.

    Add in the recent alligator sightings (and aggression). Add in that there appears to be a consistent and well documented history of young ones wading into that water a bit - its impossible to think that employees of Disney didn't know that people did wade into the water regularly despite the existence of these little signs. There's pictures and videos of kids doing such all over the internet. Add that all together and Disney completely blew it.
     
  9. B-Bob

    B-Bob "94-year-old self-described dreamer"

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    I totally agree with that. Not sure exactly how it's happened, but the change in the last 100 years in America is striking.

    We used to have 40 year expected lifespans, people dying of disease and accidents all the time. The world gets a lot safer and everyone suddenly feels entitled to the good luck of an 80-year-long life with nothing bad happening.

    It just doesn't jibe with the universe in general. You can't antiseptically reduce your existence to be accident free, where everything bad that happens is someone else's fault.
     
  10. Jontro

    Jontro Member

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    I don't have much (or any) knowledge on law, but say Disney offers something like $100mil out of court settlement, but the parents decide to take it to court and let this go public... what is the most probable outcome?

    Parents win the case and get a substantial amount of $, more so than the original settlement offer, and Disney takes a massive PR hit? Or Disney hires the best lawyers money can buy and possibly win the case? But going to court, regardless of outcome, will result in a massive PR hit for Disney ya?
     
  11. PhiSlammaJamma

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  12. PhiSlammaJamma

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    Ironic is that Australia doesn't usually sign beaches. Although they sign every other body of water in the country.
     
  13. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    Honestly I think if people hadn't started attacking the parents I wouldn't have even bothered to say anything. There may be some negligence on Disney's part here, but I don't think they should be raked over the coals for it. Instead I think they should (and probably will) accept some liability for negligence that played a role in a tragedy, give the family some money and then take steps to make sure it doesn't happen again.

    Because of the way gators attack it seems like would be pretty easy to put "gator fences" in the water that let water move freely in the lagoon but would prevent a gator from sneaking to the shore line.

    I know it's Florida, but really all of the "IT'S FLORIDA DUH THERE ARE GATORS EVERYWHERE!" people are annoying in this. If you go to a hotel with a man made lagoon it wouldn't occur to you that it is being fed by open water canals that are all full of gators. I mean honestly, the parent who said "No son you can't put your feet in the water on a beach at a Disney resort because "FLORIDA! DEATH!!! OMG!" would get a big eye roll and a laugh from most people.

    If Disney really believed you shouldn't get in the water because there was a gator problem, that needed to be spelled out clearly to people like they do in Australia. In Australia they are pretty strict about marking places where crocs have been and then they take a "it's sad, but you ignored the warnings" approach to croc attacks. If Disney had a reason to think that kids were in danger if they put their feet in the water then they needed to take steps to prevent that from happening.
     
  14. bobrek

    bobrek Politics belong in the D & D

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    I think if it were to come out that Disney offered $100 million in an out of court settlement and the family declined and took it to court, that Disney would come out looking good.

    Money will never bring back the child but in your hypothetical, what else could Disney do?
     
  15. justtxyank

    justtxyank Contributing Member

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    Seriously, if Disney offered the family $100 million and they didn't settle shame on them.
     
  16. Haymitch

    Haymitch Custom Title
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    OK I read that story and it's unbelievable.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ligator-Texas-mocked-beast-jumped-marina.html
     
  17. JayZ750

    JayZ750 Contributing Member

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    C'mon B-Bob... you get why people don't die of accidents all the time anymore, right?

    Is there a line where perhaps more caution could have been taken but its still no one's fault? Sure. One could throw billions of dollars at certain things and certainly that'd make them safer, but that's not feasible.

    The big thing here is expectation of risk and safety.

    I'm, and I think everyone, is way way less upset and willing to accept it as an accident if we're talking about a two year old that wanders over some rocks into a lagoon. In the gorilla case, IF there is fault to be found, I think most look to the mother first... even though the zoo took actions to change the setup afterward and hadn't had that happen in 35 years. But even looking to the mother, no criminal charges were filed, the kid wasn't taken from her, etc. Not the best parenting, but also generally an accident that could.

    The facts of this case are completely different.
    - Known alligators in the lagoon
    - Stories of them being more aggressive in the last two months
    - Not well placed or visible signs
    - And even when visible, not very informative...
    - Most damning, the setup, which encourages swimming/wading

    This wasn't an accident that millions/billions of dollars might prevent and just truly an accident. This was easily preventable.
     
  18. REEKO_HTOWN

    REEKO_HTOWN I'm Rich Biiiiaaatch!

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    Nope. If they refuse to settle they will have to fight until they're lost child's 15th birthday if their lucky. There were signs, I'm sure on Disney purchase agreements their are CYA clauses all over it.

    They will not beat Disney in a court of law.
     
  19. Kevooooo

    Kevooooo Member

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    This is so surreal to me. My family's "home property" for our Disney Vacation Club is the Grand Floridian. I was there just last November. The areas cordoned off/that playground is merely yards from where my balcony was. I never went down to the sandy beach areas, though.

    As far as liability is concerned, Judge Napalitano seems to think Disney had grossly inadequate standards and will ultimately be responsible for this event, but will likely settle out of court ASAP with the family and add warning signs of alligators.

    Personally, I think it's just a tragic circumstance and Disney couldn't have done much more to stop it. They already have an active alligator removal process. The property is in the middle of the wetlands filled with gators. When there's a lot of rain, the gators get moved out of traditional areas. They've got 40+ years without an attack.

    Same thoughts I had with the zoo that the kid fell in. It was open 35+ years without an incident, but all the sudden it's grossly inadequate to protect visitors?

    Poor family. Can't even imagine what they're going through.
     
  20. REEKO_HTOWN

    REEKO_HTOWN I'm Rich Biiiiaaatch!

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    Hey Kevooooo

    Can you pm me some details about the DVC? I've been interested for a while but don't trust anyone outside of ClutchFans really to give me the real scoop.
     

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