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To those who want to trade any part of our core: Why?

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by kholdphlames, Apr 6, 2013.

  1. kholdphlames

    kholdphlames Member

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    Just out of curiosity. I'm a CF lurker who doesn't post much because I just started following basketball the beginning of last season. I started watching the Heat, then when Linsanity hit, followed New York and now following the Rockets. Yes, I am a bandwagon fan/LOF, but I honestly want to learn more and find a better understanding of the game. I was wondering if you guys could help me form my own opinions on basketball.

    Which brings me to my question: what reason do you have to trade any of our core members (namely Harden, Lin, Asik, Parsons and Delfino)? I see a LOT of posts suggesting trades for a current star. I see calls for Dwight, CP3, Love and Smith. Honestly, I don't understand the logic of such. Here's why.

    1) Those stars are at their peak. Harden probably won't peak from 2-3 years. If we want to build a dynasty, we don't want to get current stars. We want to a star around the same age as Harden.

    2) Speaking of stars, I think we have candidates for that already: Parsons and Lin, who are tied for my favorite Rockets member. Parsons is looking like a Scottie Pippen type player. Guy can do anything and he's only on his second season. He is more likely than Lin to be the Robin to Harden's Batman. Lin, on the other hand, is most useful for his leadership. While I think Lin's skills as a player is debatable (and I don't have enough stat experience for that), I think it's pretty easy to see who the vocal leader is. Harden leads by example and wins us games, but Lin is better at thinking up plans, organizing the offense and talking us into winning, Shane Battier style.

    3) By trading a core member, we mess with a formula that is working exceedingly well. We're one of the best, if not the best, offensive teams right now. At the beginning of the season, the goal was simply not to suck. But I'd think we're killing it right now.

    That's my inexperienced opinion. So why would a trade make us better in the long run? I'm not just asking who, I'm asking for a logical or statistical prediction for which a trade would make this team a better team. Any game plans or set plays which would make us more deadly in the long run (i.e. Triangle Offense/Princeton Offense/Pick and Roll Offense) which aren't available to us right now? Thank you very much!
     
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  2. HL3

    HL3 Member

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    If you want to beat the Heat in a series, which is basically what it will take to win a ring, then you will need more than one superstar.
     
  3. kholdphlames

    kholdphlames Member

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    Question is: is it even possible to beat the Heat as they are now? I think as long as Wade is still at his peak, they are unbeatable. Once Wade starts waning down (I think he would in around 4 years), then the Heat should be beatable. By then Harden and co. would have peaked
     
  4. BraveFox

    BraveFox Member

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    REPPED
    i was even against trading moras and 2pat...imho its better to keep the same players and chemistry to deevelop and polishing the game than to change roster constantly..lakers and other numerous experiments in nba basketball in general and other sports shows that star collecting rarely brings expected results...
    but perhaps morey have some other plans and agendas(perhaps he wants to be lakers GM )

     
  5. Mr. Clutch

    Mr. Clutch Contributing Member

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    I would not consider Delfino part of the core.

    He's pretty replaceable.

    Otherwise I agree. Though we'd trade Asik or Lin in return for Dwight or CP3.
     
  6. Aleron

    Aleron Contributing Member

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    They have no matchup for Dwight at all (Bosh really?), Love hasn't peaked (he's 1 year older than Harden...), Wade is already not as good as he was, and he's no jump shooter so he certainly doesn't have Kobe's longevity.
     
  7. BraveFox

    BraveFox Member

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    we'd also trade Harden for Lebron or Durant:p
     
  8. speedball

    speedball Contributing Member

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    I get chills watching this team thinking about how great they can be in a few years once they figure out how to play defense. The 94 rockets did it with one star and some other guys that stuck together for a while and built chemistry. We may need to bring in that "clyde drexler" to speed things up. people get impatient.
     
  9. bmd

    bmd Member

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    If the goal is to win a championship, then this team isn't going to do it. Moves have to be made.

    I agree that it is tough to see some really good core players traded. It's hard to do because of the unknown. It's scary to trade away some of your good young players. It could possibly ruin the team. But there is a risk and reward factor at play. It could also make the team even better overall.

    The style of play may change. The chemistry may change. But the team may win more consistently.

    If your goal is to be "very good", then this Rockets team can achieve that. If the goal is "championship", then some players eventually need to be changed.
     
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  10. Aruba77

    Aruba77 Contributing Member

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    It's comforting knowing that if we do absolutely nothing in the offseason, worst case scenario is that we're better next year.
     
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  11. RickyNewport

    RickyNewport Member

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    Harden is a young super star player so he's not even up for consideration to be traded... Alexander would have Morey escorted out the building if the thought even crossed his mind.

    Lin, Parsons, and Asik will all be free agents in 2 years after this season and if all keep improving all three will command big money contracts and the Rockets would more than likely only be able to sign two of them depending on what free agents will be signed this off-season. Asik is the hardest to replace and small forwards and point guards are plentiful, but there's only one point guard averaging decent numbers with plenty of potential and has world wide marketing ability so it wouldn't surprise me if Lin is the last man standing of the two. And Parsons is probably one of the most valuable trade commodities in the NBA.

    But it all depends on how they play in the playoffs because that's when it counts. What's done in the regular season is nothing compared to the playoffs because that's where stars and legends are made.

    I think Morey is going to judge these players by what they do in the playoffs and go from there because the regular season truly isn't enough to judge off of...
     
  12. bmd

    bmd Member

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    Since the team has a goal of winning the championship, that means they have to be the best team in the league. Not the third best. That isn't good enough. Not the second best. That isn't good enough, either.

    They have to be the best team in the NBA.

    If your team only has a peak potential of playing in the Western Conference Finals, then that isn't good enough. Some players will need to get shuffled around in order to break through to the next level.

    Since the goal is to be THE best team, that means they would have to be better than the Heat in a 7 game series. Better than the Spurs in 7. Better than the Thunder in 7. Better than everybody in the league.

    So do you honestly think this current team, while they could potentially be VERY solid, can be the best team in the league? If the answer is "no", or even "probably not", then changes will have to be made at some point.

    No sense in hanging on to being the 5th best team in the NBA and being scared to lose that spot if the only spot that matters is being the #1 team in the NBA.
     
  13. CisBuds4U

    CisBuds4U Member

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    nice first post! repped +1

    I agree with the general tone of your post. I think it is critical to keep as much of the core as possible to allow the rockets to develop chemistry and the "je ne sais quoi" that it takes to have a group that can pass, shoot, and dunk in their sleep. Having said that, you have to be certain that you have the type of 'superstar' young players on the roster.

    Looking at the roster, we def. have players with all-star potential:

    Harden--already a superstar and he's only 23, and will get better

    Parsons--probaby not a superstar but all-star potential. I agree with the "scottie pippen" analogy although we'd be lucky if he actually was as good. Parsons is still young so seeing where he is in another year of playing time will make things more clear.

    Lin--I don't think he'll be a superstar but he still has upside.So keeping him another year to evolve is worthwhile.

    Asik--not a superstar but more than serviceable center and a top rebounder and defender to boot. Def. part of the core

    PF--I honestly believe that one (or all!) of DMO, TROB and TJONEs have crazy potential. I don't know if they will ever be all-stars or superstars (unlikely) but giving them (all) one more year to find out is probably worth it imo. They are all ROOKIEs. Alot of people forget that and get annoyed when they have up and down games, but as rookies the inconsistency is to be expected. Many cfs want to replace the PF position with an existing all-star and that is a legit place to upgrade if you can. (I.e an Aldridge, Love, JSmith type player), but it would be nice to hold on to some of the Pfs nonetheless.

    Bench: The rest of the players are replaceable, even though keeping them would only enhance the chemistry and probably make the rockets a better team overall unless there is an obvious upgrade out there (not sure there is).

    All in all, it would be great if the Rockets would keep this team together for another year before any firesales or big trades without really knowing what we already have on the roster, especially vis a vis the rookies. I know its tempting to get the superstar PF which would definitely help the team short-term but as another poster said, even if the Rockets do nothing next year, at worse, we'll only be better.

    I would love to get a stud PF who is still young and could grow with the team but it would be great to hold on to the core of Harden-lin-parson-asik and let those guys grow together.
     
  14. felixng2012

    felixng2012 Member

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    Because Parsons and Lin will never be superstars. Everyone except Harden is expendable for the right trade.
     
  15. felixng2012

    felixng2012 Member

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    This is because were aiming for a ship. Not a treadmill team. Not a very good team but a legitimate contender much like the Heat, Thunder, and Spurs. In order, to be that we need multiple star level players.
     
  16. seyton

    seyton Member

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    Well, the way I see it is this:

    A. We don't really have to trade any of our players to obtain any of the stars people have been suggesting, they are talking about us signing them as outright free agents and adding them to the core players we have.

    B. We would only trade one of the core players if the "star" free agent we sign is at a duplicate position. If we sign Josh Smith I see no reason any of our core players would have to be moved, you may see a few of our young PFs moved, but they seem to be interchangeable anyways. If we were to sign Chris Paul, Lin is gone, if we were to sign Dwight then Asik may be gone but that is only because they make starter money and would be the 2nd best players at their positions on the team.

    C. The real issue is that no matter what we think of the current group of FAs or potential trade targets right now we will have to make a move to get a quality player soon. It is true that Harden's prime is a few years away and it would be better to get a star his age but we won't have a high draft pick any time soon to get one and there is no way to maintain maximum cap space availability so you can sign a potentially better, or better suited for the team, star FA when guys like parsons will be getting a nice raise soon.

    Whatever the group of available players is this summer it seems that we have to get one of them or else we may lose out on the opportunity to add a quality player through free agency at all.
     
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  17. meh

    meh Contributing Member

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    Morey's philosophy is that you replace the replacable, assuming the trade has a chance to help become a championship contender in the future. Lin, Asik, and Parsons are all replacable. Asik may be borderline irreplacable, but I bet you Morey would still trade him for an all-star like Love or Aldridge in a heartbeat.

    You may disagree with this philosophy, but Morey has shown over and over that he has replaced all the "core" pieces we've had in the past with cheaper, younger players.
     
  18. kholdphlames

    kholdphlames Member

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    Interesting responses. Here's what I think:

    As to Parsons not being a star: again, I'd like to make a comparison to Pippen. Pippen's sophomore stat line is chillingly close to Parsons. I don't know how to put stat lines in my post, but google it. If Parsons continues his growth, he'll end up to be the 2nd scoring option in this team. And a superstar.

    As to Lin having no potential as a star: he's had superstar bursts last season. He is our fastest player and has top-notch court vision. I seriously don't understand how his ceiling wouldn't be high. Can anyone explain? Thanks!

    As to this team not being championship caliber: all I see missing is a good defensive scheme. Otherwise, we torch almost all offenses in the NBA right now, and we're a VERY new team. I think we're geared for a 'ship in 3 years as we stand now (given our guys grow).
     
  19. dragonz

    dragonz Member

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    We prob needs a bench star like Crawford, JR Smith type guy and another solid defender we can throw at teams if we'd keep our team as it is.
     
  20. meh

    meh Contributing Member

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    If you go by this logic, every team in the NBA has 3+ "superstar potential" players on their roster. The Rockets probably have like 6(Harden, Lin, Asik, Parsons, DMo, TRob).

    It's up to the GM to balance out the chance of becoming that superstar with what they're likely ceiling is. Because unlike the MLB, you don't get gazillion minor league systems to give them tons of time to develop.

    Also, FWIW, Parsons also similar to Dunleavy and Prince in their respective seasons as 24 yr olds. There are dozens of players similar to any ex-superstar at their respective age/experience. It's a horrible way to judge a player's a potential.
     

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