what would it take for you to finally believe that rudy needs to be fired? i mean, it seems to me that no matter what the situation is, there is always a copout...errr....legit reason....errr...excuse as to why we have't made the playoffs in four years (and counting). if we were to acquire shaq and tmac for next season and we didn't make the playoffs, i swear to god the PRC would be saying "yeah, but it was their first year together" or "chemistry takes time" or "it's the assistant coach's faults". if it isn't injuries, it's players switching positions/roles. if it isn't lack of crowd support, it's rudy having cancer. if it isn't a rookie leading us, it's the 2nd youngest team in the nba. if it isn't "trying to incorporate yao", it's "steve not being aggressive enough"... at what point, PRC, does the rubber meet the road? at what point are you willing to assess that rudy has failed? or does he have a lifetime free pass? seriously...TheFreak, heypee, Old Man Rock, etc. at what price Rudy?
For one thing, I think you'd have a hard time convincing many people that if Rudy T had not been diagnosed with bladder cancer this year, we wouldn't have made the playoffs. As a Rudy T supporter myself, I want a non-injury plagued year in which he gets to coach the entire year. If that happens next year and we still don't make the playoffs, I'll appreciate the grumblings. However, it all depends on how we play as well. If we showed marked improvement, not necessarily in wins, but in how we play the game, then I may not call for his head. Honestly, I think you have to give Francis and Yao a few years together to see what you've got. Changing coaches this year or next will just start the whole process over, IMO.
RM95, i do have a hard time believing that. the highwater mark for the rockets' season - as far as quality of play - was probably the LA game, after which we were 27-25. rudy's last game was vs. phoenix, after which we were 35-30...a 3 game increase from the LA game, but heading into a tough 5 game road stretch. we finished at 43-39 a .524 winning % when rudy left we had a .538 winning % now consider the last two games meant nothing for either us or phoenix since we were eliminated (phoenix lost both of those games and we only won one of them), and i cannot say that we would have "definitely" made it in. sorry. i don't buy it.
We were also on a five game winning streak before Rudy T's announcement. I'm not saying it would've definitely continued through the west coast trip, but there's no question that Larry Smith made some questionable decisions as head coach.
Out of baseball, football, and basketball, I think coaching has the least in-game impact in basketball. Sure, there are substutitions and the coach calls some plays, but the players make most of the decisions on the floor and it ultimately ends up on the players. However, NBA fans are really impatient, and when a team fails, the coach is usually the first one to go. The Rockets are in a unique situation in that their coach has been with the organization for over 30 years. Would Kings fans get pissed if Rick Adelman were fired if he fails to win a title again? I doubt it...How many Mavs fans would shed tears if Don Nelson retired tomorrow? Not many, I'd guess. Rudy would no doubt get a commemorative section in the Sunday Chronicle if he were fired. As Charlie Palillo pointed out, though, eras end. Rudy is the last remnant remaining from two NBA titles are are becoming more and more a distant memory. I think people would get over Rudy being fired, but it will take a little longer than getting over Don Cheney. This year, the team took the brunt of the blame. Next year, Rudy might not be as lucky...
I am a firm believer in firing coaches the moment they lose touch with their star player, or simply have too much cancerous dissension in the rank and file players. Outside of that, I strongly believe that firing coaches is highly overrated when the real problem is the player's lack of ability to be a contender. sorry verse, I don't think losing Rudy would cause a drastic change like we need, in order to become a contender. Maybe later, if we become a contender, Rudy won't be able to get them over the hump to the Finals (let's say)...then a Del Harris or Dunleavy type firing (where the coach you are firing was a Coach of the Year for turning around your team) makes more sense; but even then, notice the Dunleavy firing just imploded the team, whereas the Harris firing seemed to work (largely just be waking up Shaq).
We all knew that the Rockets had a tough schedule to close out the season. The Rockets lost out to the Suns when they lost to Chicago, New York, Miami (at home), Cleveland, the Wizards. So the "Rockets were in the playoffs till Rudy left" argument doesn't fly with me.
Hey man, the Western Conference is just too tough right now with all the powerhouse teams. Let's just be patient with this young squad and in a few years who knows what could happen!!!
heypee: i agree that firing rudy is not the magic potion that'll suddenly make us contenders. raising the play of yao ming and steve francis are the only things that can do that. as for as the o'neal example you gave, shaq is a dominant one on one player that needed to further dominate to raise his team's level of play. kobe, as well. let me ask you a question, though. don't you believe the system (style of play) that they use has something to do with their ultimate success? put shaq/kobe in rick adelman's system and i'm not so sure they are as successful as they are now. go back to the hakeem era. would hakeem have been as successful in the triangle offense? i definitely don't think so. i bring that up because of two reasons: a) steve francis can thive (hell...has thrived) in one-on-one systems. however, i really, really have concerns about his ability to thrive in an offense that requires more movement and, more importantly, more reads (decision making). b) yao ming, imo, would thrive best in the exact same offense that francis would struggle in. conversely, he struggles the most in one-on-one situations. when the ball, and more importantly, the players are moving, yao ming is undisputably at his best. this brings up a serious quandry that can only be solved by the coach: how to mold these two players together. are they even complementary parts??? so, it seems to me that you're saying that rudy's pass ends if he isn't able to get us over the hump (into the finals). is that right? ok, then how long do you give him to get to that point? is 5 years enough? many combos take that long. how about 10 years? many individual players take that long to "figure it out". or do you even entertain the thought that a different coach may be able to solve this largely offensive oriented problem that the rockets are facing? see, i've already come to the realization that the man to lead us to the promised land will HAVE to be yao ming. steve has already proven to me that he cannot "lead" us there. and i don't even want to consider misusing yao ming as a "complementary part" to steve's one-on-one ability. then, you're just reducing yao ming to a release valve type player. then, he's a spot up shooter, rebounder, garbage bucket, secondary offense type of player. that's a crime, imo, given yao's talents. so, i believe, in time you have to lean on yao. i understand he was not physically capable of it this past year. i understand that. but i have serious doubts on rudy's ability to design a system that could exploit yao's talents, considering the fact that it really does need to be movement/motion oriented. my doubts make me say to move him now, for the sake of yao. even if we won 3 championships in yao's era, based on yao's one on one ability, i'd always say that he could have and should have won more if he would have had an offense designed around his natural strengths. call it looking a gift horse in the mouth if you want. i call it maximizing your assets...
I promise you Verse if we get Shaq and Tmac next year and still don't make the playoffs I will personally start a petition to fire Rudy.
I'd agree we weren't going to catch Phoenix with or without Rudy. The Suns won a lot of games in the final stretch they should have lost; I think they did want it more than we did. But, for the question: I think the "what's it going to take" approach is the wrong one to begin with when it comes to firing Rudy. It is a measuring stick approach: his job is dependent on reaching a certain milestone. I think you need to look on the team as a whole and the big picture to evaluate if he's the coach you want or not. I'm not saying you haven't done that. I'm saying that in doing that myself, I still like Rudy. And it doesn't matter what mark of evaluation you may point to to argue against it (playoffs, championships, whatever); it isn't a holistic approach and isn't persuasive.
verse, I don't get your logic. You are saying that Yao would thrive best in the exact same offense that francis would struggle in. This I agree wholeheartedly. But then you conclude that this can only be solved by the coach. I thought the coach was reponsible for the "system." How is the coach supposed to do with two players that thrive in two opposite systems? Changing the coach will solve the problem?
Great point verse. In another thread a couple of weeks back, someone pointed out that Rudy T has been sucking when Olajuwon began his down fall. The guy is just past his prime, he rode the Olajuwon train but it is time to move on.
Verse, We lost in the first round because Pippen dribbled the ball off his foot and cost us that series. It was not Rudy who did that...but Scottie. Now, I am all for changing Rudy or holding him accountable for a lack of progress this year. However, I think the Cancer and the impending move bought him another year....although with a short leash. DD
Easy, that's just it! it is not an "easy" problem to solve! here's what has to be done. either: a) find a system that allows both of them to thrive in their individual talent sets or b) pick one or other player (yao or steve) and force the other to adjust, if they can or c) pick a system that neither of the players thrive in. "a" is the best answer. but what system would that be? has rudy, given his 30 years of service, ever been around a system that does this? has he ever designed one? "b" is a possibility. i don't think steve could adjust to yao's system, though i hope i'm wrong. i do think yao could adjust to steve's system, but i think it would be a crime of monumental proportions (see my explanation to heypee for why). "c" is obviously the wrong answer. however, that is, imo, exactly what we did this past year. remember...we started off in the francis/mobley iso offense right? then we started giving the ball to yao - thus taking the ball out of steve/mobley's hands as much. but we made him go isolation, for the most part! a system that neither of the players thrive in! now then, i ask you again, at what price rudy?
a lifetime pass? Hardly... It wouldn't matter to me if Rudy was fired. I never get too attached to coaches, because they change so frequently. Coaching at the pro level is tough. No credit for winning, all the blame for losing. Another playoff-less season, and he's out the door. If he gets into the playoffs next year, he'll most likely stay
