I'm getting a bit, oh how shall I say, unenlightened by my current career. I'm curious what it would take for a college grad to get their law degree and take the bar. I'm not too concerned about the bar exam. Any test I've taken that I've cared about does well. Just curious, on a part time basis, what it would take to do it.
Ummm.. OK. Hard to say what I knew. When I graduated, it was economics and finance. I'll be the first to say that business law classes screwed me. But, at the same time, they (lawyers) are doing something that changes peoples lives. I'm doing nothing more than order taking now. It is financially lucrative, but unfulfilling. It is one of the main reasons stockbrokers are considered sleazebags. We do well for clients, yet we feel unfulfilled by doing so. Quite frankly, I'd hope you have a broker with the same conundrum.
are you doing it for the money, the more prestigious job or just a change of atmosphere? if its 1: Unless you get really lucky and think outside the box, hour per hour it isn't worth it considering the debt you will be in. Normal people in law school get something in the 45K-80K range while the top percent get $120-$165, all depending on which school you go to and where you work. And those top jobs come with a heavy price: you will be worked to death only to be likely let off after 3-4 years, the turnover rate for firms is really high since the salaries are overinflated. 2: awful reason, most work is uninteresting unless you are lucky enough to figure out what niche you want. Most people don't. 3: Sure, but you have to really want to do law in particular. Its NOT anything close to what we think it is based on our media. However, there are probably better things that can be done with the money you spend on the degree that will take less time to achieve. That's just my experience, and I've worked for Large firms, small firms, non-profit and corporations. /goes back to study for the Bar
Law School normally takes 3 years. If you do it part time, it'll take you 5-6 depending on how many hours you take.
As one of my compadre's, how do you feel these days. I'm not necessarily unapologetic about my means. I just now would like to do something. Do you think it's worth it?
Fatty....what do you want? Do you want big money? Or do you want to help people? Few career choices provide both.
Umm...not really. Why law? If you want to help people, there are many professions to go into, but most do not pay. Schoolteaching, working in a free clinic, mental health services, etc. If you want to make money, there are other, perhaps easier ways of doing it than going to law school. Sales OR....do you want both?
I've been in sales my whole life, so that ain't it. It has a lot to do with my mom. Law would make her feel better. She's been asking me to do that since I was a kid. BTW, you up for anything today, smartass?
Why would law make your Mom feel better? And....is your Mom the only reason you want to try this? I can hang for a couple of beers mid-late afternoon. Got a rendezvous at 9PM.
My background is similiar to yours with a business undergrad. I went to law school and then the financial services industry because I didn't want to practice law (not something you discover until after your 1st year). I started on the sales side, like you. Using my law degree, I parlayed that into the planning "expert" on estate, retirement, tax issues, etc. for firms as a salaried employee for several years. My next step was to go from the local shop to a national company. I now travel in my territory (CT, upstate NY, PA) and meet with advisors, give presentations, and do client seminars with no sales aspect. Im completely salaried and I educate people which is very fulfilling, personally and financially. I look forward to work every day. Many lawyers spend the majority of their time reading, analyzing, and drafting documents. I could never sit behind a desk and do that 60-70 hours a week. And if you work for a big firm, you have the political BS too which I hate. Too much stress (the billable hours every 15 minutes is just a pain in the ass) and just too boring for me..
I'm a law student right now. If you're going to law school because it will make your mom happy...well, don't even sign up to take the LSAT. My experience in the first year of law school is that it's miserable. I can't say I know more than one or two people in our entire class that actually enjoy what they're doing. Even the people at the top of our class seem to hate law school. If you can see your self enjoying an education and career where you spend the majority of your time reading extremely boring material, producing documents based on that boring material, and being in a high pressure situation all the time -- then I would encourage you to go to law school. Granted, there may be other careers that you can get where you aren't doing the tasks I just described, but I don't know if the debt you incur as you go through law school would be worth it as far as how much you'd make at those jobs. That's just IMHO, so make sure you ask other people that are lawyers/law students.
if you want a lucrative job you have to attend a good law school and do well or attend a decent law school and do fantastic. otherwise the debt/opportunity cost/effort isn't worth it for most people.
Not if you own a small firm. My law partner is a divorce attorney. I am a bankruptcy attorney. We both draft documents, to be sure...but we log an awful lot of court time.
So I'm getting sued for $5,000 by this lady who has absolutely no case, but its going to court. I go to a law firm, "O, first we're going to need a $10,000 down payment to begin with the case." O well I'm sorry I guess I'm just going to pay the fat ***** $5,000. That's a FLAW in the system.
My father went to law school after majoring in math and then getting a seminary degree and doing missions work in Southern France and Algeria. My mother wasn't so fond of missionary life, thus the law degree. He did school full time and worked part time. Right after he finished they had baby number five. Even so I would still suggest that if you go to law school, do it full time regardless of what else is going on in your life because if you do it half time you may never finish. If you are wondering what sort of lawyer you become after being a minister well not a very wealthy one. He took on a lot of pro-bono cases and was self-employed doing contract law because he didn't want to work for a large firm for 70-80 hours a week and not see his five kids much. Now he teaches law and apologetics courses online and does some other unrelated work. He would probably recommend a law degree from the standpoint that understanding law and being able to represent people is helpful for business as well. I have some other friends who are also practicing law for more humanitarian reasons and wondering if they will ever make enough to get out of the debt they incurred getting the degree. But they are the sort who just couldn't live with themselves if they went after serious money. I worked for an immigration attorney in college when I still planned to go to law school to make my mother happy. You do need to do a lot of careful reading. Immigration law was pretty dull, all the cases fell into simple categories with lots of paper work but a predictably steady and decent income. I hear my old employer is not too crazy about all the changes in the past ten years. All that to say that going to lawschool does not necessarily mean you have to become one of those people that erveryone loves to hate. Although they will probably hate you regardless of what sort of humanitarian spin you place on your career. Make sure that te sort of work you will do as a lawyer is going to be interesting and meaningful enough to make it worth while.
To add to this... even within the same size firms the nature of your work depends on the individual situation. I am a first-year bankruptcy associate in a giant (1600+ lawyers) law firm. The work, however, has been interesting so far. There are only 8 bankruptcy lawyers in my office, so we beginners get more substantive work than you'd expect in a big firm with the typical big-firm division of labor.
