To Chinese or anyone who knows about China's views about America

It's the other way around. At least that's my feeling from the things I was exposured.

 

the entire military policy of china is tuned toward a showdown against america in the near future. its goals are limited to asia though. it is seeking to be absolute hegemon in East Asia, eventually eliminating US influence in korea, japan, SE Asia, and Taiwan. however, its capabilities, at least in the next half-century will not be sufficient to project far beyond its coastal waters. (no navy, no long-range air force, no military allies --> zero power projection).

it sees itself has part of a future multi-polar world order, composed primarily of Europe, US, and itself, with marginal influence for the likes of Russia, India, and Japan. In order for this to come about, the sole superpower, US, must be undermined in just about everything it does. Only with a significant decline in prestige, national power, and morale/ambition of the US will this goal ever be realised.

the chinese have got a sort of "manifest destiny" where they'll spread their dominant influence throughout the region, first in a Greater China (China, HK, Taiwan), and then through a pan-Asian institution which of course it will over-awe. Right now, the US dominates the biggest Pan-Asian institution APEC and is the chief partner in most of the region's security arrangements (bilateral treaties with SKorea, Japan, Philippines, and implicitly Taiwan), while China's influence is minimal in these and most others (ASEAN, SEATO, ADB. etc.). This must change. Basically the US must first be challenged, and then excluded in any future asian arrangement.

some chinese feel that the US will naturally decline, especially relative to china's prolific growth. most feel that a more proactive course need to be plot to rapidly strengthen china and weaken the US. the same is the case in the US. some officials feel that economics and reform will naturally bring China into the world order as a responsible power friendly enough to the US. others feel that power relations and ambitions will inevitably steer the two powers onto a collision course, if not over taiwan, then over korea, philippines/spratleys, japan, trade, etc. etc.

if you need references let me know. i know of some seminal articles in this field, from across the spectrum. pro-engagement, pro-containment, sino-phile/sino-phobe, etc. etc.

 

Sorry Lil. But what you said have absolutely no evidence and ground, especially the following paragraph.

"the chinese have got a sort of "manifest destiny" where they'll spread their dominant influence throughout the region, first in a Greater China (China, HK, Taiwan), and then through a pan-Asian institution which of course it will over-awe. Right now, the US dominates the biggest Pan-Asian institution APEC and is the chief partner in most of the region's security arrangements (bilateral treaties with SKorea, Japan, Philippines, and implicitly Taiwan), while China's influence is minimal in these and most others (ASEAN, SEATO, ADB. etc.). This must change. Basically the US must first be challenged, and then excluded in any future asian arrangement."

No offense but sound like some brainwashing "information" from the "great" US government for me.

 

not choosing sides between Lil and the others that will surely come after this.
but a piece of advice to robbie..

ask for posters to identify where they come from, as there is a wide difference in opinion between Taiwanese and mainland Chinese on how things are or what happened(or is happening) in the region.

We have seen this popup in other threads over the last year.


carry on

 

i think there are three basic ways you get the chinese views:

1) go to Chinese think tanks and read their english reports, or go read the official policy pronouncements in the state press (Xinhua, People's Daily, etc.) which often is translated.

2) go read works by Chinese visiting researchers done in US think tanks, which I've listed below.

3) interpret their diplomatic and military actions for yourself once you understand the context.

http://www.uscc.gov/works.htm
(esp. the "views from the PRC" section)

http://usinfo.state.gov/regional/ea/uschina/
or more specifically,
http://usinfo.state.gov/regional/ea/uschina/chreport.htm

Shanghai Institute for International Studies
http://www.siis.org.cn/

Heritage Foundation
http://www.heritage.org/Research/AsiaandthePacific/index.cfm

Brookings Institute
http://www.brook.edu (search using term "china")

American Foreign Policy Council
http://63.123.226.152/crm/crmmain.shtml

or my personal favorite:
Center for Strategic and International Studies
http://www.csis.org/

Or go to any of these other think tanks, and search for "china"

Cato Institute

RAND Corporation

Council on Foreign Relations

Hoover Institution
Progress and Freedom Foundation
Carnegie Endowment

hey i don't mind if you guys call me biased. but i'm just trying to help this poor guy with his paper. you want to blame someone, go blame the establishment, go blame the academics, go blame the policymakers, don't shoot the messenger!

by the way, one of the classic books on the subject is by Bill Gertz, titled "The China Threat: How the People's Republic Targets America".

Another classic is Bernstein and Munro's "The Coming Conflict with China".

or try this one by the Cato Institute:
Ted Carpenter (Editor), "China's Future: Constructive Partner or Emerging Threat"

There are other works, far more extreme, if not paranoid, like Mosher's "Hegemon: China's Plan to Dominate Asia and the World" or Timperlake's "Red Dragon Rising: Communist China's Military Threat to America", but stick with Gertz and Bernstein. I personally think their arguments are on far more solid academic, theoretical, and technical ground.

These should all be easily available from your school library or via Amazon.

Good luck with the paper, by the way!

I'm Taiwanese, and proud of it.

 

Also for sources on China:

<a HREF="http://www.jamestown.org/trends_china.htm">China Trends</a>

<a HREF="http://www.jamestown.org/pub_china.htm">China Brief</a>

Sometimes you can find a related article here:
<a HREF="http://www.atimes.com/atimes/China.html">Asia Times</a>

Just remembered this one:

<a HREF="http://www.taiwansecurity.org/">Taiwan Security</a>

 

Dried mango is very good!!!

Well since China has about 1,200,000,000 people...uhh...you can't really survey them.

They could be taking over all those small countries by now! They just want what they believe is part of China.....Taiwan...heh.

They aren't trying to cause any conflicts.

Hopefully the two countries can remain in peace.

 

Brainwashing?

You mean how the Chinese government tried to coverup SARS, was caught spreading the bogus propoganda, and now has to admit it was lying with its tails between its legs.

Let's be real.

If something like SARS originates in the US, every major (and minor) newspaper would be on it in 5 seconds.

China is notorious for its propaganda (or brianwashing).

The rationale is simple.

China has a history of revolutions. If everyone is allowed to associate freely and voice dissenting opinions, revolutions occur, potentially destabilizing the entire nation. Its hard to control a billion people. This is the reason theyare so obsessed with controlling "information" .

Unlike the Japanese who are always diplomatic , the Chinese gov't is notorious for insulting the US publicly yet taking an entire different approach privately.

If you wonder why North Korea continues its beligerent rhetoric, just look at its neighbor.

China is obsessed with its nationalism and views any admitted failure as a weakness.

This is why the entire SARS episode has been such a disgrace (and eyeopener for the rest of the world). Now the whole world knows China's just a big lying piece of crap.

 

Hell, it's not like everything the US government says is true. How many times have you been lied to in this war?

China didn't get caught in coverup. China punished those officials who conducted the cover up. Big difference.

 

Are you serious?

Youre telling me that you have 24 cases and then all of a sudden you spread this disease worldwide and only the mayor and 1 other person know about this?

Do you really believe this? Give me a break.

Wasnt it 2-3 weeks ago that China's premier said ignore all the rumors and it was safe to come to China, blah blah blah. Youre telling me he didnt know about any of this.

Do you really think that the people in China believe their government right now?

Wasn't there a prominant doctor in China that said the government was trying to hide things?

The Government runs the media and the media refused to acknowledge anything til last week when the WHO called them out.

All of this happened and 2 men in the entire country were responsible.

Please. Don't lie to us and expect us to believe it. We don't live in China and we aren't stupid.

Robbie, if you want a lesson in how China handles things, this is a microcosm of how the Gov't responds to these type issues.

1. Denial or
2. Place the Blame on Someone else

The difference is when you don't have a smoking gun, these people will make up anything to make them look good and make the US look bad.

 

Robbie,

Sorry to throw the thread off topic.

Like I said before, the whole SARS incident is a microcosm of how the government works.

They deny what they can and if that doesn't work, they try to pin it on the US.

I think most Americans are really naive when it comes to China.

The majority of the American public want to believe that China is our friend.

The majority of American businesses want to believe that China will let us export to their billion masses.

All of this is true - for a price.

Awhile back, when SARS was first being reported, my soon to be father in law told me he was going to Beijing for a conference on Nuclear Power. I told him to stay away because if theyre reporting 5 cases, there's 500. If they report 10 cases, theyre actually 1,000.

They will do anything to "save face".

It's this nationalistic code that prevents them from ever negotiating in good faith or deal with you on an equal level.

They will bad mouth you to gain negotiating leverage.
They will work with your enemies to undermine you.
They will never give the US praise or recognition.

North Korea uses the exact same tactics as China except much louder.

The day the US fully trusts China is the day the Trojan horse will be unleashed upon us.

 

1. Can some people read the TITLE of this thread?

"To Chinese or anyone who knows about China's views about America"

Are you Chinese? How do you know what Chinese thinks? And those link articles prove nothing. They are Amercian's views or American's views about China's views about Amercia. See the difference?

And some people stated what American media told them like they are facts. Wow how clever!

2. Chinese government does lie a lot but every Chinese knows this.

But on the other hand American government lies but some American still don't know or refuse to know.

Talking about blind worship...

 

Just my point of view, nothing scientific about this. Most of the upper members of the Chinese gov't wants to expands its influences but are smart enough to realize its limitations. I.E. not messing with Japan about their prime minister visiting the shrine of dead soldiers from WWII and not messing with Russia about that piece of land that was supposidely belonging to china. Both of these incidents were actually huge movement pushed for by the Chinese public who feel as a strong country now it needs to flex some muscles. The gov't was smart enough to ignore them.

The Chinese public went through a long period of serious sh*t (nothing was good for the ppl since the "Sphere of influence" when Europeans basically controlled China, to the great leap forward, to maybe like 5-6 years ago where it start to get better) and for part of my life I was there too going through it all. Recently living standards have gone up in China, or atleast in the big cities. It's kind of shocking to see some of cousins who were jealous of me cuz i had a transformer action figure when i was about 7 now talking about getting an mp3 player and cell phones while they're still in high school (just to show u how much has changed).

Now that China's strong again, most of the public have grown a little hawkish, maybe even wanting to do some pay back, most noteably anti - taiwan and anti - japan sentiments. The danger is if actual conflict arouse, what the US would do, which can lead the countries into war. Luckily the current gov't in China are fairly level headed and wouldn't be so foolish.

And as much bloodlust is there in the public, its taken a huge back seat to self indulgence. The same people who want wage war with Japan is also busy listening to his sony mini disc. The same ppl that feel China should annex Taiwan is having lunch at "yong he da wang" a popular Taiwan chain that is thriving in China (atleast Shanghai). I find extremely comical, that while talking tough, most Chinese wouldn't want anything to endanger their new way of life.

In the end I don't see a conflict arising that much between US and China, as long as constituents of both countries can have enough to eat at McDonalds, drink Starbucks, listen to their Sony, surf the net for p*rn, and basically get inside of the matrix to forget their problems, they really don't want conflict. And I think both gov't are figuring out that a mutually parasitic realation ship is good for both countries.