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To Avoid Counting Civilian Deaths, Obama Redefines Civilian to "Militant"

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by Hightop, May 29, 2012.

  1. Hightop

    Hightop Member

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    Only a Nobel Peace Prize Winner could be this peaceful.

    And only more silence from the Obama-Cultists.

    [​IMG]

    <p>Virtually every time the U.S. fires a missile from a drone and ends the lives of Muslims, <a href="http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/yemen-us-drone-strike-kills-militants-16443848">American</a> <a href="http://www.voanews.com/content/us-drone-strike-kills-three-suspected-militants-in-pakistan/1105705.html">media</a> <a href="http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/story/2012-05-24/Pakistan-drone/55179756/1">outlets</a> <a href="http://www.boston.com/news/world/asia/articles/2012/05/25/us_drone_kills_militants_in_pakistan/">dutifully</a> <a href="http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/05/28/2820690/yemen-army-retakes-most-of-al.html">trumpet</a> <a href="http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/08/10/us-drone-strike-kills-21-afghan-militants-in-pakistan/">in</a> <a href="http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/story/2011-10-05/Yemen-al-Qaeda-militants-killed/50670708/1">headlines</a> that the dead were ”militants” – even though those media outlets literally do not have the <a href="http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/06/27/us-pakistan-violence-idUSTRE75Q52L20110627">slightest</a> <a href="http://articles.cnn.com/2012-03-09/asia/world_asia_pakistan-drone-militants_1_drone-strikes-tribal-region-south-waziristan?_s=PM:ASIA">idea</a> <a href="http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5ip9__0MFtLS2x6RpKX4l3mbjoNVw?docId=CNG.ed3fc3e016a720a3286d8f3516f0c011.5d1">of who</a> <a href="http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2011/10/another-us-drone-strike-kills-yemeni-militants/43724/&quot;">was</a> <a href="http://articles.cnn.com/2012-01-12/asia/world_asia_pakistan-drone-strike_1_drone-strike-militant-compound-drone-attacks?_s=PM:ASIA">actually killed</a>. They simply cite always-unnamed “officials” claiming that the dead were “militants.” It’s the most obvious and inexcusable form of rank propaganda: media outlets continuously propagating a vital claim without having the slightest idea if it’s true.</p>
    <p>This practice continues even though key Obama officials have been <a href="http://www.salon.com/2011/07/19/drones/">caught lying</a>, a term used advisedly, about how many civilians they’re killing. I’ve written and said many times before that in American media discourse, the definition of “militant” is <em>any human being whose life is extinguished when an American missile or bomb detonates </em>(that term <a href="http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2011/10/another-us-drone-strike-kills-yemeni-militants/43724/">was even used</a> when Anwar Awlaki’s 16-year-old American son, Abdulrahman, was killed by a U.S. drone in Yemen two weeks after a drone killed his father, even though nobody claims the teenager was anything but completely innocent: “Another U.S. Drone Strike Kills Militants in Yemen”)<em>.</em></p>
    <p>This morning, <em>the New York Times</em> has a <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/29/world/obamas-leadership-in-war-on-al-qaeda.html?pagewanted=1&amp;_r=1">very lengthy and detailed article</a> about President Obama’s counter-Terrorism policies based on interviews with “three dozen of his current and former advisers.” I’m writing separately about the numerous revelations contained in that article, but want specifically to highlight this one vital passage about how the Obama administration determines who is a “militant.” The article explains that Obama’s rhetorical emphasis on avoiding civilian deaths “did not significantly change” the drone program, because Obama himself simply expanded the definition of a “militant” to ensure that it includes virtually everyone killed by his drone strikes. Just read this remarkable passage:</p>
    <blockquote><p>Mr. Obama embraced a disputed method for counting civilian casualties that did little to box him in. It in effect <strong>counts all military-age males in a strike zone as combatants</strong>, according to several administration officials, unless there is explicit intelligence posthumously proving them innocent.</p>
    <p>Counterterrorism officials insist this approach is one of simple logic: people in an area of known terrorist activity, or found with a top Qaeda operative, <strong>are probably up to no good</strong>. “Al Qaeda is an insular, paranoid organization — innocent neighbors don’t hitchhike rides in the back of trucks headed for the border with guns and bombs,” said one official, who requested anonymity to speak about what is still a classified program.</p>
    <p><strong>This counting method may partly explain the official claims of extraordinarily low collateral deaths</strong>. In a speech last year Mr. Brennan, Mr. Obama’s trusted adviser, said that not a single noncombatant had been killed in a year of strikes. And in a recent interview, a senior administration official said that the number of civilians killed in drone strikes in Pakistan under Mr. Obama was in the “single digits” — and that independent counts of scores or hundreds of civilian deaths unwittingly draw on false propaganda claims by militants.</p>
    <p>But in interviews, three former senior intelligence officials expressed disbelief that the number could be so low.<strong> The C.I.A. accounting has so troubled some administration officials outside the agency that they have brought their concerns to the White House. One called it “guilt by association” that has led to “deceptive” estimates of civilian casualties.</strong></p>
    <p><strong>“It bothers me when they say there were seven guys, so they must all be militants,” the official said. “They count the corpses and they’re not really sure who they are.”</strong></p></blockquote>
    <p>For the moment, leave the ethical issues to the side that arise from viewing “<strong>all military-age males in a strike zone as combatants”; </strong>that’s nothing less than sociopathic, a term I use advisedly, but I discuss that in the separate, longer piece I’m writing to be published a bit later this morning. For now, consider what this means for American media outlets. Any of them which use the term “militants” to describe those killed by U.S. strikes are knowingly disseminating a false and misleading term of propaganda. By “militant,” the Obama administration literally means nothing more than: <em>any military-age male whom we kill, even when we know nothing else about them</em>. They have no idea whether the person killed is really a militant: if they’re male and of a certain age they just call them one in order to whitewash their behavior and propagandize the citizenry (unless conclusive evidence somehow later emerges proving their innocence).</p>
    <p>What kind of self-respecting media outlet would be party to this practice? Here’s <em>the New York Times</em> documenting that this is what the term “militant” means when used by government officials. Any media outlet that continues using it while knowing this is explicitly choosing to be an instrument for state propaganda — not that that’s anything new, but this makes this clearer than it’s ever been.</p>

    http://www.salon.com/2012/05/29/militants_media_propaganda/
     
  2. QdoubleA

    QdoubleA Member

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    Lol shutup Hightop. GIF TIME!
    [​IMG]
     
    1 person likes this.
  3. basso

    basso Contributing Member
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    civilian deaths only matter if a republican is responsible. otherwise, crickets.
     
  4. CrazyDave

    CrazyDave Contributing Member

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    Does being deliberately obtuse get easier or harder the more you do it?
     
  5. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    No matter how you feel about drone strike, this complaint is legit. No one seriously believes all the deaths were militants. Making posts like this paints you as a moron running around with their fingers in ears humming.
     
    3 people like this.
  6. FranchiseBlade

    FranchiseBlade Contributing Member
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    It's a ridiculous thing to reclassify civilians like that. I would rather there be an "undetermined" or "unknown" status. It's more accurate.
     
  7. RedRedemption

    RedRedemption Contributing Member

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    Its a hightop thread.
    Three critical components of argument:
    -Logos, Hightop fails at logic.
    -Ethos, Hightop has no credibility.
    -Pathos, Hightop comes off as a extremist douche.

    So... of course nobody is going to take his thread seriously.

    However, I will make an exception to this topic. Dehumanizing the innocents over there is just morally wrong.
     
  8. basso

    basso Contributing Member
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    you forgot Aramis.
     
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  9. larsv8

    larsv8 Contributing Member

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    I don't like the killing at all, however I view it as a cost of war. So no crickets here.

    However, its very hard to take any of the conservatives on this forum, or anywhere for that matter, very seriously since most of thier arguments are either:

    1.) Based on facts that are flat out not true or
    2.) Clearly blown out of proportion based on thier bias against our president who just happens to be black.

    Not too long ago, it was either Hightop or Basso (who can tell them apart?), I asked a simple yes or no question about drone strikes and they refused to answer, calling it a "gotcha question". Frankly its just pathetic. I clearly lean left, but that doesn't mean I support EVERYTHING the president does, nor am I against EVERYTHING that comes from the right.
     
  10. Bandwagoner

    Bandwagoner Contributing Member

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    Yes the liberals here attacking the OP and now even pulling the race card is obviously the high ground.
     
  11. Depressio

    Depressio Contributing Member

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    Ugh. They kill 'em as if they're guilty, then posthumously pronounce them innocent (if ever)? Guilty until proven innocent? Literally the opposite of what we should be doing. I know, I know... blah blah blah, terrorism is different, blah blah. I just disagree. Of course, overall, I think we should GTFO of the Middle East and should never have been there in the first place.

    Still, while I disapprove heavily of Obama being such a warmonger, the other option currently is Mitt Romney, who wants to attack Iran and create a trade war with China, all while destroying the nation by giving the wealthy (his friends) more and more tax breaks. Obama is still the better option of the two by far. Gary Johnson could be the best candidate, but a vote for Gary Johnson is like a vote for Mitt Romney since he'll never win. This is really what's wrong with America: all of our politicians among the two parties are terrible; one party just happens to be worse than the other (subjective, of course).
     
  12. glynch

    glynch Contributing Member

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    It is shameful what the US has done and continues to do in Iraq and Afghanistan.

    History will not judge us kindly.

    So shameful to be an American at times.
     
  13. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    its easy to attack a guy with a gazillion threads on the front page
     
  14. Northside Storm

    Northside Storm Contributing Member

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    This is the general feeling I get discussing American foreign policy with most Americans, to be honest.
     
  15. RedRedemption

    RedRedemption Contributing Member

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    His credibility is shot.
    99% of his threads are pure provocative crap.
     
  16. cml750

    cml750 Member

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    What would you expect when Obama has most of the media in his hip pocket.
     
  17. krosfyah

    krosfyah Contributing Member

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    A government with a war time propaganda machine = water is wet.

    War sucks.

    Who started these wars again?
     
  18. QdoubleA

    QdoubleA Member

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    I can, and will, make every Hightop D&D thread slightly more bearable with the use of silly gifs. It's what I was put on this earth to do. Out of all the crap that certain posters post, you choose to speak up and call me moronic when I post pictures of 3 year olds karate'ing each other? Don't you think that effort would be better spent on the ones who are posting equally silly things and mean it?
     
  19. edwardc

    edwardc Member

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    When the reb's were doing it was it a problem or it it just the dems who are doing it .
     
  20. cml750

    cml750 Member

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    I don't think you get it. He is pointing out the hypocrisy of the liberal media. Off course it is bad to kill civilians no matter who is president however this was made a big deal when Bush was in office and not really reported as evidenced by the headlines when it happens under Obama.
     

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