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[tnt] TNT Crew talk about the Rockets coaching prospects

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by tinman, May 10, 2011.

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  1. tinman

    tinman Member
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    Don't forget Cliff Robinson on the 89-90 Portland Trailblazers.
    Rick played him about 19 minutes a game.
     
  2. BleedRocketsRed

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    Yeah but 171-168 and one COY is better than 225-241. Keep in mind, Doc took over a team which had just been tossed out of the 1st round and lost 4 (pretty much 5) starters while Frank took over the defending conference champs.
     
  3. Sweet Lou 4 2

    Sweet Lou 4 2 Member
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    First of all, many of those guys you mentioned are seasoned coaches, Doc Rivers got COY one year - that's a proven record. And Carlisle is known as a great coach. Thibodeau is a defensive master and has been successful everywhere he has been - even if he was an assistant everyone knew he was going to be a head coach and if we didn't have RA he'd be in the discussions.

    The only other contender you got there is Miami, and that is not a situation where you need a whole lot of coaching, as the players egos are so huge that only a Phil Jackson could actually coach that team. He more manages the bench than the team.

    We can role the dice on one of these guys, but to me it really indicates we are resigned to mediocrity - and that's why I am surprised.
     
  4. albuster

    albuster Member

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    Good post. I was wondering, just for the sake of discussion, how anyone of those coaches listed would have fared coaching this Rockets team.
     
  5. heypartner

    heypartner Member

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    Why are we saying Rick Carlisle is a mediocre coach? He was COY with Detroit. And won 61 games with the Pacers, too...most wins in the league, with Jermaine O'neil as his best player, and a fiery Artest as his 2nd best. He improved that team by 13 games. I could make a case that Carlisle would have won COY that Indiana year, too, had they not already gave him the award 2 yrs prior.

    I think we are reaching saying Carlisle didn't have a good coaching record.
     
  6. Carl Herrera

    Carl Herrera Member

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    I think Chuck is still mad at the Rockets for screwing him out of $3 million or something.
     
  7. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    Actually, the reason that Cuban hired Carlisle in the first place was that his adjusted +/- guy (Wayne Winston) figured that he was a really, really good coach by the numbers.
     
  8. saleem

    saleem Member

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    Cuban may have hired him for that reason,but that is not why they are winning. They have better talent now and are deeper than before. Stats have limitations.
    Morey doesn't realize that. Coaching is an art,otherwise any plus minus coach would be successful with good talent.
     
  9. Dr of Dunk

    Dr of Dunk Clutch Crew

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    Why do you say Morey doesn't realize that considering he himself has stated that stats don't present the entire story on several occasions?
     
  10. Lowry4three

    Lowry4three Member

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    lol exactly, I used to get so excited when the Rockets sign D-leaguer on 10day contracts, because Rick always seemed to find a way to make them effective on the court. like Mike Harris
     
  11. dreamshake09

    dreamshake09 Member

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    Why? We have to hire someone and the coaching pool may be large, but not all that deep. Furthermore, I would worry more about getting good players than hitting a home run with selecting the right coach.
     
  12. dreamshake09

    dreamshake09 Member

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    LOLz. Don't be an idiot and think in absolutes... "Morey likes his stats, therefore Morey can't see anything past numbers." This type of thinking gets old on this board.
     
  13. saleem

    saleem Member

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    I know he has said this,but I don't feel that he fully grasps the extent of the need for coaching vs relying on stats. At times,his first response is to crunch the numbers.
     
  14. BleedRocketsRed

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    What makes you say this?

    Examples. Proof. Or just a guess?
     
  15. saleem

    saleem Member

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    No guessing. He has been asked on radio talk shows about players,and on occasions he has said we will crunch the numbers,instead of talking about their strengths and weaknesses. I'm not saying that he does this most of the time.
     
  16. favhr#12

    favhr#12 Member

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    I say we offer chuck the job u know just for fun
     
  17. durvasa

    durvasa Member

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    They are winning because of great talent, great depth, and great coaching. I was simply saying that the Mavs brought Carlisle in because they believed him to be an elite NBA head coach despite whatever his win-loss record might have been. That assessment was based on quantitative analysis, but this is beside the point.

    Also, FYI, in 2010 Morey chaired a panel discussion titled "What Geeks Don't Get: The Limits of Moneyball" (link to panel).
     
  18. Shroopy2

    Shroopy2 Member

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    Its fair for Barkley to say the team doesn't have any premiere franchise talent going forward for a coach to work with.

    But yeah I think Barkley's going a bit far making it like Houston is NBA purgatory.
     
  19. albuster

    albuster Member

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    Interesting. Morey has acknowledged, to a certain extent, the limits of moneyball, and that use of stats is not everything in his basketball analysis, based on what some posters here stated. If this is the case, I wonder what he has left to offer Alexander and the Rockets.

    If I recall, correct me if I'm wrong, wasn't he hired because of his innovative approach to the GM position, and that it was the "advanced metrics" methodology, i.e., moneyball, which was supposed to be on the cutting edge of basketball management, and that Morey will be the primary promoter of this innovation?

    Well, considering that Morey hasn't had many years, relative to most other GM's in the league, in his involvement and exposure to the NBA, what then does he have, other than stats, to allow him to work as GM? If stats/moneyball is not the pre eminent tool in his arsenal, why is he still the GM? Or moneyball is still his primary tool and then he combines that with other factors to help him arrive at his decisions?

    That is not innovation at all then, so aren't the Rockets better off getting a GM who is a basketball person who has been involved in NBA basketball as lifers, and who have deep personal relationships with the other GM's and top decision makers? Morey could then be an assistant who could provide the necessary advanced statistical analysis to assist the GM in making basketball decisions.

    In making decisions as a GM, intrinsic basketball knowledge has no substitute, I think, but it would greatly benefit from the additional perspective of advanced metrics, but not the other way around.

    Just a thought.
     
  20. aelliott

    aelliott Member

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    A couple of points.

    First of all, only Miami and Boston are "stacked" with All-Stars (7 between them). How many all-stars did the rest of the playoff teams have this year?

    Dallas - 1 (Dirk)

    OKC- 2 ( Durrant, Westbrook).

    Memphis - NONE

    Atlanta - 2 (Horford, Johnson)

    Chicago - 1 (Rose)

    Secondly, you could have a coaching staff comprised of Phil, Auerbach, Daly and Riley and you still aren't going to go deep in the playoffs without talent and I doubt that anyone would suggest otherwise. The current Rockets roster wasn't going to be a contender with Adelman or any other coach at the helm so the fact that hiring any of these candidates won't immediately turn them in to a contender is totally irrelevant.

    If the knock on these guys is that they won't immediately turn the current roster into contenders, then who do you suggest could walk in an immediately turn us into contenders? It can't be done, we need more talent and Morey has said that time after time. But once they do upgrade the talent, there's no reason that we can't be succesful with one of these guys.
     

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