With Francis the Rockets were in pretty much in all their games, even though their record was just above 500. As we all know, Rockets without him have been woefull, the worst team in the league. This has held form even with the Cat back. The only other team seeminly so impacted by the loss of a guard is Phily. If nothing else, this should solidify Francis as a top 10 player. I am not sure even Kidd or Payton mean as much to their teams. Though I still reserve the watch the rest of the season before I declare Stevie the best overall point guard in the league ahead of Kidd or equal to the other totally dominant guy under 6'4" (Iverson), he sure might be headed there quickly. The one downer part is maybe I have overestimated Cat. He is very good, but if it were him still sidelinded and Stevie back I am thinking the Rockets would be much more competitive than they are. Cat does not appear to be on a Kobe-Vince-Iverson type trajectory. Very good player yes, great player, don't think so.
completly agree, i think that there are good player and thare are leaders, and francis is the leader of the team ,a nd without him the tewam dony know how to play, because he is his the bes scorer, the best in rebounds, the best ins assits, the best in steals, , francis is practicly a half of team, and iam sure that when he returns, the rochets will play good again, i hope that it wont be to late
So many people on this board kept saying that Cat was as important to this team as Steve is, but I thought that was total BS. Cat is a solid role player but nothing else. Steve is this team, and this losing streak proves it.
Well, to be fair, Mobley's only been on his own for a few games, and he may not be completely healthy. Also, we were playing more home games earlier on, and lately we've been playing back-to-backs on the road. Also, Willis was really contributing earlier on, but since hasn't done jack ****. Also, when Francis is out, we get more of Tierre Brown, which is a huge drop-off. If Mobley were out, we'd likely see more of Walt and Oscar Torres, which is not as bad. Rice has been out lately too. Now I'd say that if JUST Mobley were out, and Willis was still getting double-digit rebounds every night, and Rice and Cato weren't out, then yeah, we probably would've won some more games. But that's really not the situation Mobley has faced.
Keep in mind that.... 1. Cuttino has two injured ankles and one is only partially healed. To have an injured ankle (one or two) removes his greatest asset ... his explosive first step. 2. Also, any team that loses it's most integral part (Steve Francis) loses more than the production total of that position. The team focused on a PG that carried the game plan and attempted to involve the others. He is no longer is there. Compare PG to PG (Steve to Mooch or Steve to Tierre) not production of a PG to an off guard. 3. For all the attributes that the two guards (Steve and Mobley) have gained indiviually, they both are larger than the sum total of their individual production. Steve without Cuttino removes a key outlet, a key draw, and a key scorer from his mix. Likewise, without Steve, Cuttino has lost some of his feeds, some of his opportunities and definitely he misses the comraderie (it ain't the same on the sidelines,folks) and the knowing look and decrete nod that says " okay get ready I'll backdoor yeah!". 4. The biggest loss by far ... and if you haven't bought some of what I just posted then buy this .... is the ability of either Francis or Mobley getting double (or even triple at times) coverage. Now, everyone knows you can't double two players,not unless you want to commit strategic hari kari. So the opponents had to choose on every possession. Attack Francis defensively or attack Mobley defensively .... but now, with only Mobes out there threatening, it's a fait accompli .... Mobes get the double or the threat of a double and everyone elses covers his zone. Result: decrease in production or poor shot opportunity and at the very least .... a decrease in shot production. Which is what we have,folks.
Freak, I agree to a point. One thing to consider is context, and early season we were deeper, fresher, and thus eveyone was playing better in a more reasonable role for them (especially Willis, Kenny, Walt/Rice), etc. However, certainly going into the season you would think we had more solid back-ups at the one (Mooch) than the two (who knew Torres was as solid as he is). The Cat is very good, and valuable, but I just think losing him isn't near the hit losing Steve is. The Rockets need Cat to put together 30+, 5, 5 type games for them to have a chance at winning, and he isn't doing it. It is possible Cat is getting back in terms of injury healing or overall conditioning, but he just looks to me he isn't as capable of dominanting multiple games as Kobe or Vince or Iverson or McGrady often can. Granted this is a very tough criteria, I don't think some other pretty good 2 guards like Finley, Jones, Spree or possible even Allen could do much better either. It is just he doesn't appear "elite" level to me. Oops, I really didn't want to come off as ripping Cat so much as saying Francis IS one of the ELITE players in the NBA and the 1st or 2nd best player in the world who is under 6'4". I am nontheless we have a player as good as Cat for when he comes back.
OP, just curious, do you think Francis is at the level of Iverson. To me it is remarkable how totally and completely different the 6ers are w/wo him. Does Francis need a Cat to be so effective, where AI doesn't seem to need anyone other than roll players and defenders to make a darned bad team become darned good?
Definitely, out of all our injured starters, we'd rather have Francis back. He provides offense, rebounding, some assists, and steals. Not to mention intimidation. But the real question is, out of the rest of the injured players, who would you like to have back? It's really a choice between Mo and Cuttino..Who would you choose? Also, would Francis start at the 2-guard alongside Moochie if Cuttino was out? How would he do there?
I think that this proves once and for all that Francis is a better player than Mobley. The Rockets without Mobley would still be around .500. We know what the Rockets without Francis are like: 0-13 in the last 13 games.
I don't think there's anyone who would say that Steve Francis isn't a better player than Cuttino Mobley. He is. However, the difference isn't night and day, and you don't have to drag down Mobley to prove Francis' greatness. Both of them are great players. By the way, how would you know that the Rockets would be a .500 team without Mobley? Has there been a long stretch in the last couple of years that Francis has played and Mobley has not? I'm guessing you didn't think the Rockets would be winless without Steve either, so please don't make assumptions like that. P.S.: Haven't found a Sonics board yet?
No, no, you guys have it all wrong. According to Kevin Loughery on cnnsi today, the most important player to his team is Baron Davis. With Mashburn down, Davis has managed to keep his team 2 games under .500 . He went on to say that Baron Davis is by far the best young point guard to come into the league for a long time. If Francis were so important, don't you think this "NBA expert" would know it, or even less, that Francis even exists? I thought Jack Ramsey was senile, but i think this Loughery guy needs to be put out to pasture. Those comments made me pretty mad, and this thread seemed a good place to mention them.
Actually, the Rockets ARE .500 without Mobley and with Francis. 1-1 They beat the Bucks last year, and lost to the Spurs this year. There you go! I know that Mobley is a good player, and I'm not trying to drag him down. I'm just saying that Francis is, without a doubt, a vastly superior player. I know you were joking, but I just want to say I don't like the Sonics from an analytical perspective as I do the Rockets. I enjoy going to all their home games, and I may shell out the cash for cheap seat season tickets next year, but the Rockets are still my numero uno. It's an addiction. I'm probably going to watch all 82 games of this slop.
zrb its only one month of slop, steve will be back in a few weeks, and as for announcers, although that will be my future profession some of them dont have a clue what theyre talking about and are getting by from their playing days
One thing about Iverson and Jordan and some other marquis players is that if nothing else, they can get to the line and do get to the line consistently every game. You may say this has a lot, even mostly to do with the refs. But regardless, that and an unstoppable go-to move is how the star player "gets his." I don't know if Steve has quite nailed that ability to "get his" in the same capacity as Iverson or Jordan in both those areas.
That is probably true. I was wondering if Steve has developed Iverson's mid-range game. Iverson has mastered a floater maybe 8-12 feet away from the basket on the run that doesn't get blocked much. I think Isiah Thomas had a similar shot. Is the middle/short range game the extra dimension Francis needs to be the best guard in the league?
AI's role players are a lot better than ours....production and consistency I mean.....SF is far better than AI no one bothers to pay attention because we keep losing...and we are a "rebuilding" team.....welcome to the world of the Rocket respect
