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This should be our Next Move!

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Trackwell, Jul 30, 2021.

  1. meh

    meh Contributing Member

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    The Rockets will suck next year regardless of how hard they try. And by trade deadline they will have the perfect "trade vets to purposely tank" thing going on.

    If they somehow are even remotely relevant by the trade deadline, either one of their vet is playing out of his mind, and therefore perfect sell high target at the deadline, or their youngsters are developing at lightning speed, in which case I wont even care if we dont get a high pick next year.
     
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  2. Corrosion

    Corrosion Member

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    There's a point where you have too much youth on a roster and this team is awful young as it is. Look at all the key contributors who will be in their 2nd or 3rd seasons ....

    Then you have Wall , EG and Augustin on the opposite end of the spectrum .... those dudes are gonna miss a whole lotta games.


    They are already a poor defensive team and adding 4 rookies to that ..... they could be one of the worst again even with a couple guys being really solid individual defenders.


    My hope is that some contender takes EG and maybe Augustin off our hands because the roster is so guard heavy , either way , the young kids are gonna log a whole lotta minutes and rookies / 2nd year players getting heavy minutes usually leads to a poor record and a lottery pick , even with really good young players.

    Its the 2022/23 season that I believe the record starts improving in a significant manner with Tate , KPj , KMj & Wood having developed some consistency together & this years rookies going into year two .... and also being able to move Wall without committing assets. They might be fighting for an 8 seed or at the tail end of the lottery in the 2023 draft.


    I'm just not down with trading away good players for lottery tickets when the current group has a clear timeline & you have time to make those talent evaluations and financial decisions.

    Trading Wood next year (2022/23 deadline type move) might be a possibility , assuming the team doesn't think he fits the timeline or they don't believe he's worth the cost of a max deal.
     
  3. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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    Agreed.

    Cannot fall in love with all the young guys, not all of them will stick.

    Especially if tanking next season too.

    Rather focus on postseason goal and establish fighting culture.

    2023 is better draft to tank for anyway IMO.

    Need a season or 3 to evaluate our current young players.
     
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  4. D-rock

    D-rock Member

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    I'd rather Rockets show some improvement and still draft in top 6 and take Damion Collins.

    Need a long big that can switch 1-5 as well as be elite shock blocker.



    Collins, who averaged 35.2 points, 14.4 rebounds, 7.0 assists and 6.2 blocks per game and earned Gatorade Texas Player of the Year honors as a senior at Atlanta High School (TX) this past season.
     
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  5. Trackwell

    Trackwell Member

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    He’s for sure not worth a max
     
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  6. theDude

    theDude Contributing Member

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    I think I must have missed what your proposed "next move" should be.
     
  7. Mathloom

    Mathloom Contributing Member

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    I would see how Green looks in his first 15-20 games and then make a decision. If he's looking great already and showing flashes in the PnR with Wood, then you probably keep him. If healthy and with a bit more experience, he is easily a 3rd best player on a winner. We can have a max cap slot in 2023 even if we keep him, plus we have the option of trading two large expirings (Wall and Gordon) plus multiple future picks if a top 15 player becomes available (and that might make Wood ultra valuable as well).

    Also, let him battle it out with Sengen. He's going to realize that to elevate himself, his defense is going to have to improve.

    Bigger focus is trying to shed Wall and Gordon without losing draft assets and maybe try to creep into the FA game sooner. This is a great team for an FA to join if Green and KPJ are developing well:

    Wood/Sengen
    Garuba/Martin
    Tate
    Green
    KPJ
     
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  8. kjayp

    kjayp Contributing Member

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    I think 'building a culture' involves a lot of psychological aspects... and for years we have been a dysfunctional mess (despite our regular season success). (sidenote - this is why i wanted JVG - he could build a culture imo)

    I think u have to send your squad out with high expectations - 'we're gonna snag a playoff spot - and then anything can happen in the playoff...'

    Now if you couple that with hamstringing them by making moves which obviously hurt the present squad (like trading Wood) then what message does that send? If my bosses are pushing for success - and then hamstringing me... i gonna feel like they dont know what they are doing or I'm just getting lip service... like Frittata spewing about about winning a championship - while jettisoning assets for LTS...

    I think if you get a month or two into the season and it aint happening... you can pull the team together and say 'look we believe in you guys and think we have a great core for the future - but we need to get you another piece or two... so we're gonna focus on developing over winning for the rest of the year - to place ourselves in a position to really make some noise next year...' I think thats what happened last year after Wood went down...

    Tanking for 1 season due to circumstances (Harden, WB, DM, etc...) is perfectly acceptable - like the Spurs did to acquire Duncan... but i have no desire to become Donald Sterlings Clippers on the perpetual treadmill of high draft picks - that amount to nothing bc of the lack of culture and proper mindsets.

    imo....
     
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  9. roslolian

    roslolian Rockets Only Fan
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    There are weak drafts and there are strong drafts.

    Missing or hitting is a mixture of depth, lotto position and picking the BPA. I think scouting, tech and analytics have evolved to the point guys like Adam Morrison and Johnny Flynn prob wont appear in the top 5 again. The only problems remaining are Depth and Lotto position.

    If the draft is weak like 2020, then you need to be in the top 3 to make sure you hit in the draft. If the draft is deep, then there's a lot more leeway. For example, Edwards, Lamelo and Wiseman would be pick 7+ in this year's draft.

    So what we can see is the smart teams would know when to tank and when not to tank. From what I can see 2022 is just as deep as 2021 and more importantly we got full control of our pick. Not tanking would just be dumb IMO. Would you rsther have JaeSean Tate or Banchero at SF alongside Green? Just saying.
     
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  10. roslolian

    roslolian Rockets Only Fan
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    Lol I can understand the logic here you realize the 2nd season hasnt even started yet right????

    You already talking about years of tanking when the first season just got done? Look at past rebuilding projects Minny with KG, Lebron with Cle, Melo with Nuggs, Darko with Pistons....1 yr projects never do anything but waste time. Yeah you got to the playoffs, so what? Your star will get tired of being the only good player on his squad and he will leave.

    PHX only got the to the Finals cuz they got the no 1 pick Ayton and no 12 pick Cameron Johnson to pair with Booker. If they settled for quick fix just to make the playoffs after Booker got drafted they would be an old team right now and Booker would be making trade demands.
     
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  11. kjayp

    kjayp Contributing Member

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    You do realize the season hasnt even started yet - and people are talking tanking, right?? Maybe we drafted 4 future HOFers (i doubt it) who could win the championship next year (highly doubtful) - but folks are already deciding to tank... we dont even know what we have - or how far they could potentially go... but lets blow that off for an entire year for some unknown draftee that hopefully wont be a bust (as a good % are)...

    i'm not saying after 1 year that we have a finished product... i'm saying there are ways to improve without tanking right outta the gate...

    I'd imagine even putting forth our best efforts we will prob still be a lottery team next year... I'd rather our squad played hard and tried to win - and hope we get lucky on the ping pong balls... rather than look dismal and unengaged bc we're tanking - and hoping we dont get screwed by the ping pong balls... not to mention there are always gems in the draft outside of the top 10 draftees....

    As aforementioned... tanking for a year amid turmoil or after injury to a main player - sure, may as well... deciding to shift from winning to draft considerations midseason when its apparent u dont have the horses - fine... But making a predetermined conscience effort to be bad enough to benefit from the draft before the season has even started... with 4 new frp players in the fold... plus a few decent vets... thats loser talk imo... or someone trying to juke the system...

    On a sidenote... we've spent too many years trying to 'juke the system'.... 3ball to nth degree, small ball wo at least a legit center option, trying to work the refs (Harden hook and pull the defender into him), uneven defensive efforts, getting it done on the cheap for LTS, etc.... just do the right thing, work hard - and let the chips fall where they may...

    imo
     
    #131 kjayp, Aug 1, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2021
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  12. Trackwell

    Trackwell Member

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    Why do you say it’s better to tank because of Victor and Emoni Or because there’s gonna be a strong possibility that The rules change an 18-year-old will be allowed in which will open the floodgates for a year

    Exactly. Right on the money and to be honest with you Last year’s draft pics might have gone 8+ With Kuminga

    Great take as usual.

    and That’s what I catch myself daydreaming about right now is how does 22s draft class compare to the one we just had????

    This is the million dollar question at the moment

    I’m a big fan of Chet. I would have taken him over green if he was available. Banchero
    Is country strong And skilled..


    Let the tank begin
     
  13. Trackwell

    Trackwell Member

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    Brilliant
     
  14. RudyTBag

    RudyTBag Contributing Member

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    And when you miss on Banchero and pick a player that doesn’t stick?

    Tank again?
     
  15. roslolian

    roslolian Rockets Only Fan
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    So whats your alternative? Make the playoffs, get 15th pick and get swept till Green leaves in free agency? At least getting talent has a chance to work, making the playoffs only to get swept has 0 chance to work as we have seen with Lebron, KG, Melo, DRose etc.
     
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  16. FLASH21

    FLASH21 Heart O' Champs

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    Help our young draft picks develop naturally and not hang our hopes up on hitting big (AGAIN) in the lottery. It was a real nail biter this past draft lottery and given we have our own pick we could still fall out of the top 4 given the leap that the Raptors took at the expense of the Magic.

    Whomever we get in the draft while still competing will have to do. We don’t have the talent depleted team that we knew we had to end last season. The young guys will learn to lose together but will also learn what it takes to win. The other teams in the league will see that. These guys are hungry now, but we have to have patience and so do they.

    Eventually we will be able to attract big time free agents once again and be as attractive (if not more so) as we were before. These kids have fire, Sengun included, so I’m glad we’re finally stepping out of the sleepy and chill mode of a superstar that we had in the past with the likes of Tracy and James. They had their moments, yes, but the intensity that these kids have shown to bring on a daily basis is what we need… and have needed for quite some time.

    I do realize that they may not all pan out yet if our top 2, Green and Sengun, at the very least make it to stardom we should be in good shape. That’s all on them but I have faith.
     
  17. Trackwell

    Trackwell Member

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    THIS!!!!!!!
     
  18. roslolian

    roslolian Rockets Only Fan
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    Look this is easy.

    Let's say you are a girl and you want big boobs. You can pray to god you will get big boobs naturally, or you can get breast implants so you arent self conscious about it. At the end of the day, you care about is you have big boobs or small boobs, not whether it is artificial or real.

    Rockets pre Harden competed NATURALLY, we too good to suck so Rockets would trot out a team with Scola, Battier, Patterson and Chuck Hayes to the 8th seed again and again. Do you see any banners up in the rafters talking about thise good old days? All I got out of it is 5 yrs of wasted time on the treadmill of mediocrity. Every single time the season ended the Rox would have been better off if they didnt make the playoffs and tanked instead.

    Where is the statue of Chuck Hayes in toyota center? All I see is a statue of Hakeem, who the Rox intentionally tanked for.

    I see a lot of people complaining about tanking after 1 yr but I dont see anybody offering viable solution to win a ring. Will making the playoffs this year win us a ring? No? Then we better off tanking so we get a lotto pick.

    Starting 2022 season with top 2 pick>>>> starting 2022 season with 15th pick

    It's that easy.
     
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  19. roslolian

    roslolian Rockets Only Fan
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    If Lebron let the chips fall where they may he would have been KG 2.0 and still ringless in Cleveland by now. You make your own luck, you make your own destiny. Decide what the goal is and then take steps towards that. The right thing is make a goal and then design a strategy towards that goal. Let chips fall where they may meand just being clueless and not having any idea what to do.

    Nobody is saying Green and co. cant play hard, but the Rox can obviously make it so the team will still suck even if they try hard they will still be bad.

    For example not resigning Olynk and replacing him with 6'8 Theis. Thats a downgrade, even if Theis plays hard he wont be Olynk. Last year Rox did that by not getting Levert and trading away PJ and Dipo. I still saw KPJ and Kmart Jr play hard despite them losing.
     
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  20. FLASH21

    FLASH21 Heart O' Champs

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    It’s not about 15th or 2nd… we don’t have a team full of; Lowry, Dragic, Scola, and Battier’s here. We have TALENT we just have to give them time to develop. Both individually and as a whole.

    Plus you can’t guarantee 2nd or anything within the top 3. So fake boobs or real boobs, we don’t have as much say as we think in keeping the small boobs and letting them grown naturally or trying our best to inject them with fluids needed to enhance them artificially.

    What I’m saying is to let this team mature. It’ll happen, we’re not gonna be world beaters and won’t be for a good 3 to 4 seasons.

    If we get the lottery again cool, but we have to at least compete within that first season of tough NBA lessons.
     
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