The Florida Legislature (Republican) names the Republican Electors this week and Jeb signs it into action....then one week later the Supreme Court (Democratic) names the Democratic Electors by virtue of decisions....So, we now have two sets of electors for Florida. Then it gets pushed into the U.S. congress. The Senate would vote Democratic (Al Gore deciding vote) and the House of Reps would vote Republican. So we tie again. And then it goes back to the Florida Legislature which is Republican...and they vote in the Republican Electors. How crappy would it be that partisan politics decides this thing? Very Crappy. And then you have the people revolt and vote out Florida Legislative body because they overruled the will of the Florida voters (as proven in the courts). This is getting messy people. Real messy. Real Fast....but I still love it. ------------------ humble, but hungry. [This message has been edited by PhiSlammaJamma (edited November 30, 2000).] [This message has been edited by PhiSlammaJamma (edited November 30, 2000).]
The legislature is not going to have to decide anything, because Gore still lost, even with selective recounts. Even if the 3 counties are included, he still loses. Bush only appealed to the US Supreme Court to protect against the selective recounts overturning the election. That is now not an issue. On the Miami-Dade thing, the Florida Supreme Court already ruled that that county did not have to do a recount after they decided to stop. The election is over and Gore is hurting all of us by dragging it out. ------------------ "It's a great idea. A girl's name for a guy and lots of theatrics. I wish I'd thought of that." --Alice Cooper discussing Marilyn Manson
Isn't there a case to decide on the ballots where the Republicans wrote in the id "numbers" on the ballots? Those have got to get tossed. I can't see how they would be allowed to count. Wouldn't that alone be enough to push Gore over the top? ------------------ humble, but hungry.
Overall you make some good points. I want the true votes to be counted, but if those ballots were taken home by a Republican (without authorization), then who knows what was done to them? Maybe the vote was changed somehow? Can it be? That's where the problem might lie. In a close election something like that could have happened. You never know. Are those ballots punch holes? Or bubble dots, or what? I do agree, if the vote was not tampered with, then you count them. However, if something could have happended to the votes when taken home then I've got some serious concerns. What if they tossed some out. What if they added some. That's where I get concerned. I'm for every vote being counted as long as nothing suspicious took place. ------------------ humble, but hungry.
Again, the votes are not in question at all. We're talking about ballot applications. If I want to vote absentee in Florida, I have to file an application with my county. If my application is accepted, they send out the ballot to me. The problem came in the applications themselves. They were sent in without the voter ID number. Republicans filled in the voter ID number for some of the ballot applications (there within the office, by the way). Filling in those voter ID numbers meant the applications were accepted (when they otherwise would've been rejected for lack of voter ID number) and the ballots were sent out to those voters. The ballots themselves have nothing to do with this. It is the ballot applications that are in question. It's akin to if I sent in a voter registration card and left off some required piece of information on the registration card and someone at the Clerk's office filled in that information for me and registered me to vote. The Clerk's office having filled in that information may be a violation of law, but it doesn't affect my vote at all and has nothing to do with the ballot I would vote with. ------------------ Houston Sports Board The Anti-Bud Adams Page
If that were the criteria for counting votes in Florida, Bush and Gore would currently be in a zero-zero tie! ------------------ I am the b*stard son of LHutz. Huh? Right!
If we were talking about tampering with the ballots themselves (even if it was just writing in a voter ID number), I'd probably say to throw them out (though with 10,000+ perfectly legal votes going out the window, too, its hard to say). But we're talking about applications for ballots, not the ballots themselves. ------------------ Houston Sports Board The Anti-Bud Adams Page
That clears it up for me. Those votes should count. I've got no problem with them being counted. ------------------ humble, but hungry.
It's funny how Republicans want to count these ballots, but not the 10,000 in Miami-Dade. What Sandra Goard did in Seminole county was ILLEGAL. A state law passed after Miami’s fraudulent 1997 mayoral race says only the voter, an immediate family member or legal guardian may fill out an absentee ballot request. But that isn't the main problem here. Democratic absentee voting applications missing the same voter information were tossed away. If this wasn't the case then I could overlook your "small technicality" but this is PURE FRAUD. Many law scholars call this a slam dunk case for the Democratic activist. Look for Bush to lose 5K votes here, then the Florida legislature, ordered by the fuzzy recused Jeb Bush, will send in a slate of Republican electors on Dec 12th even though Gore will be winning by VALID votes in Florida. If this happens, look for Junior to be the most illegitimate, weakest president EVER. --- Count Miami-Dade, or Seminole absentees are out! [This message has been edited by Danilo (edited November 30, 2000).]
If Danilo is right, then I've changed my mind again. That would be unfair to the Democrats. Its an attempt to give an advantage. ------------------ humble, but hungry.
Miami-Dade has already been counted. The Fla Supreme Court agrees they can stop if they want to. ------------------ "It's a great idea. A girl's name for a guy and lots of theatrics. I wish I'd thought of that." --Alice Cooper discussing Marilyn Manson [This message has been edited by TheFreak (edited November 30, 2000).]
Wrong again. They were spat out by the Vote-a-matic counter machines. The only reason the counting by hand stopped was because of a ARBITRARY deadline and a Republican-organized mob threatening the innocent volunteers counting the ballots! --- Count Miami-Dade, or Seminole absentees are out! [This message has been edited by Danilo (edited November 30, 2000).]
It's okay to be a partisan, I expect that, but at least tell the truth. The deadline to stop the hand-counting was given by the Florida Supreme Court, after the deadline for counting assigned by the legislature had already passed. It was in no way, shape, or form arbitrary. The Gore team tried to force Miami-Dade to keep counting, after the second, court-imposed deadline had already passed, and after Miami-Dade said they didn't want to, and the Florida Supreme Court again said no. Who knows if anything else you've tried to pass off as fact is true either. Quit lying or this is the last time you get a response. ------------------ "It's a great idea. A girl's name for a guy and lots of theatrics. I wish I'd thought of that." --Alice Cooper discussing Marilyn Manson [This message has been edited by TheFreak (edited November 30, 2000).]
The only people lying here is you and your fellow Republicans. You keep on saying we counted, and recounted, when we HAVE NEVER counted the Miami-Date under vote. Do you know what arbitrary even means? The deadline set by the Florida Supreme court was arbitrary under two definitions of the word: 1. Determined by chance, whim, or impulse, and not by necessity, reason, or principle 2. Established by a court or judge rather than by a specific law or statute The Miami-Dade canvassing board has stated publicly MANY TIMES the only reason they stopped counting is because it couldn't be done by the ARBITRARY deadline the court imposed. If we want to follow the "will of the people" then we will take the TIME to count these votes, instead of crowning ourselves emperor while the election is being contested. We'll see who will want to COUNT ALL THE VOTES when the absentees are thrown out in Seminole county. [This message has been edited by Danilo (edited November 30, 2000).] [This message has been edited by Danilo (edited November 30, 2000).]
Danilo -- As Richard Hayden would say -- "Are you talking?". I thought you may have said something worthwhile in there somewhere, but it was buried by all the partisan rhetoric. Stop saying "every vote should count". You don't really mean it, and it's only something that people are losing say to get people on their side. It means nothing. I don't know how it is in fantasy land, but here in the real world we don't get to keep on counting until we like the result. If you don't like the 'arbitrary' decision made by the Supreme Court, fine. We could just as easily go with the timeline that was originally set up in Florida law, and certify the results as of a week after the election. But no, that wasn't good enough. We had to make sure 'every vote was counted'. So the court inexplicably extended the deadline so a select few counties could scrounge up some more votes. The result is still the same. The election was more than 3 weeks ago. Here in the real world, we need to choose a winner, regardless of whether Al Gore wants to leave Washington or not. Cool it with the partisan rhetoric. We all know you're pretty smart. Start thinking for yourself instead of feeding us the Democratic talking points (there was a compliment in there, in case you didn't catch it). ------------------ "It's a great idea. A girl's name for a guy and lots of theatrics. I wish I'd thought of that." --Alice Cooper discussing Marilyn Manson
Why do you insist that I stop the partisan rhetoric, when you are quoting Mr. Baker word-for-word? Maybe you should come back from fantasy land and admit that Miami-Date's under votes were never counted? Why are you in such a hurry? We have two weeks until the elector slate is chosen, shouldn't we count all the votes now to make certain the president is legitimate? Don't you think Junior would wet his pants if, through the Freedom of Information Act, a month later we find that the Miami-Dade under vote had enough sliding door chads to swing the Florida popular vote to Gore?
Why shouldn't they count? You are talking about a relatively minor technical violation on ballot applications (that may or may not be against the law). Had those applications been rejected, no telling whether those people who requested absentee ballots would have simply voted on Election Day knowing that absentee was not available to them. The voters did nothing wrong. The law requires an ID number, but there was no place for the voter to write in the ID number on the ballot application. The ballots themselves were not tampered with in any way, so the votes themselves are a perfectly valid expression of the will of those people. And since we are also talking about throwing out an additional 10,000 or so votes that had no technical violation at all, you're asking that voters who made no mistake at all and whose ballot applications were not corrected to be disenfranchised and have their votes not count. As for the Florida Legislature thing: they said they would only vote to pick the electors if it was clear the legal process wouldn't be done by December 12th (which is the statuatory deadline imposed by Federal Law). If the electors are not picked by December 12th, the state just isn't counted and 6 million votes that were cast are wasted. I don't think the Legislature will step in. If there is a court resolution by the 11th, the Legislature probably won't end up voting. And the courts seem well aware of the deadlines. The funny thing is that Gore would probably have been better off by not suing to delay certification (the case before). He would've had more time for his contest to the election to get resolved (and he is bumping up against another deadline here) and he wouldn't have this US Supreme Court thing to worry about (since there would've been no case to appeal to the Supreme Court). ------------------ Houston Sports Board The Anti-Bud Adams Page [This message has been edited by mrpaige (edited November 30, 2000).]
