I don't care how delusional you are, it is impossible to keep from being supremely pessimistic about this team without Mobley! We just won't have enough firepower to compete. Can anyone think of any teams that will be worse than us next year without Mobley??? I can't. Can anyone name some FA's dying to sign with the worst team in basketball next summer? I can't (just look at the Bulls this summer). Does anyone have a positive spin to place on this? BTW, if Mobley can't wrestle the starting spot away from Shandon, how will he be able to hold off Mo Pete for minutes? Mobley's move to Toronto will be the DUMBest mistake of his career! ------------------
Plus Cuttino will love shooting 6 times a game with carter on his team. ------------------ "I talked about what degenerates they [Mets fans] were, and they proved me right. Just by saying something, I could make them mad enough to go home and slap their moms." John Rocker
Ive posted this in orther threads but I will try again. Here is a positive spin on things. A) Cuttino only provided instant offense. He provides nothing else but that. His defense is piss poor, he is not a fabulous passer or a wonderful ballhandler up and down the court. THe ROckets had plenty of offense last season (in part because of CUttino yes). Losing some of that shouldnt hurt too much. C)CUttino was the go-to guy down the strecth of games. SOmetimes this worked, sometimes it didnt. But isolationg Cuttino hurts Steve's developement process. If we ever plan on winning big time we need a star player willing to take that big shot at the end of games. Cuttino was willing but was he a star player you could count on. Steve definitely is and now he will get his chance to make plays when the game is on the line. C) Now we will have more cap-room next summer. Perhaps no one will want to play for us cause we wont have teh best record, but i just dont see that happening. I see us still taking steps forward as an organization (even if we lose Cuttino as our hands are tied) and the mangagemenr and coaching staff is loved by most NBA players. We would have a lot of the same things to offer as Orlando did this year, not CHicago. Plus, Chicagos problems stem a lot from Jerry Krause, and as I said, our staff is respected unlike the one in CHicago. Will the Rockets be worse off with CUttino leaving? Certainly. CAn positives be found? Of course. I prefer to look at the positive. at the risk of being ostrecized...it is just basketball, not the end of the world. ------------------ When I die I want to go peacefully like my grandfather. Not screaming like the passengers in the back seat!
I agree with Francis3. If Cuttino leaves for Toronto, that would be the dumbest mistake of his entire career. More taxes, less shots, what the hell is he thinking. I am not willing to concede that Toronto is a better team then us either. That little traitor is going to f@ck us up if he leaves. I love his ass as much as Francis, but a team that broke him in the NBA, and is going to pay him next year, and he is just going to screw the organization over like that. Well Screw you Cat!! If U Leave U can go to hell as far as I'm concerned. ------------------
Jay, you made a couple of points, but I d isagree with you on the whole go-to guy part. I may be in the minority, but I'm not convinced a team will go real far on the back of Stevie Franchise. I didn't get to see a ton of games last year, but in the ones I did, it seemed like Mobley broke down the opposition's defense at will, and I didn't see Francis doing it nearly as easily (and both were being doubled, so it wasn't just how the D handled Francis). Francis is also so dang brittle. Mobley would take it to the hole with no fear, and I never thought he would get injured. Whenever Francis takes it to the hole to draw a foul, I get ready for two days of Drew starting. Also, Mobley was CLUTCH!!! Shoot, just think of that Toronto game last year when he drove on Carter to give us the lead on the second to last play. There aren't that many go-to guys in the league, and we may be losing one of the few right now. To me, a go-to guy is much more valuable than a decent all-around good defender like our other shooting guard. How many guys out there would you rather handle the rock on the last play of the game? ------------------ [This message has been edited by oakdogg (edited July 20, 2000).]
oakdogg- I see what your saying but I have to differ. I did get to see a lot of games last year and even went to a few and Cuttino was used as the go-to-guy. Did he come through, though, most often not. I can remember numerous games where Rudy would keep giving the ball to CUttino play after play after play throughout the 4th quarter. Now maybe if it wasnt so predictable Cuttino would have done better, but as is the only reason he was the go to player was because Rudy made him the go to player. Im not saying the boy doesnt have skills. He does, and he can break someone down with a quick first step. But Francis is undoubtedly the more skilled player, offensively and all-around. Francis has Mobleys quickness (not quite as quick a first step but almost), seen especially off the dribble. Francis is an Allen Iverson type player, but more well rounded, ie passing. He can take anybody off the dribble, and isnt afraid to go into the lane (when you see Cuttino in the lane it is going up not afriad and making a good layup whereas Francis takes it to the lane with extreme authority, thus all the monster slams). He will have a better shot also. He was not the go to guy because Rudy beleives in developing players. This year, with or without Cuttino, I promise you the playbook wont be calling the Cats number nearly as much down the stretch. Surely everyone has memorable games down the end. That Toronto game by Cuttino was special and tehr wer others. Steve had some of these too though. I remember one game late in the season against NY where Steve scored like 32 and basically carried the team down the end (they lost that game like the Toronto one also). And who can forget that early overtime victory over Vancouver where Steve scored 24, passed out 10 assists and grabbed 9 boards or that amazing triple double he had in the loss to Golden State (25 POints, 14 assists, 17 boards). All Im getting at is Steve is the better player by far and like all good players will become the go to guy for the Rockets ------------------ When I die I want to go peacefully like my grandfather. Not screaming like the passengers in the back seat!
Remember the one stretch during last season when Rudy didn't play Mobley at all during the 4th quarter? He was too eratic, turning the ball over forcing up terrible shots, just real dumb play in general. Rudy went with Francis and Shandon in the backcourt. I think Mobley got the message. When he got back in the rotation he did play a "little" better. Francis will be a monster this year. With a year under his belt, I think he will be almost unstoppable. I hope so anyway ------------------ "Get up, stand up. Stand up for your right"-Bob Marley
We shouldnt worry about MObley leaving becuz we got Langhi and Collier to fill the void. ------------------ treasurer of the moochie norris fan club
Let us not forget that Mobley walking opens up a wealth of opportunity for Shan da Man. With more minutes and an increased role in the offense, this kid is going places. ------------------ It doesn't matter if I have a signature!
What happens when Shandon needs a breather or is injured? The loss of Mobley is not just the loss of a backup, it's the loss of a 2nd starter, it's the loss of ridiculous depth at the guard position, and the loss of a bonified threat coming off the bench. It's like telling the opposition, we're gonna sit Shandon down, but hey, you may want to rethink your decision to put your 2nd stringers in because we're about to put somebody else in that'll light you up. All this being said, the guy isn't gone yet... so hang in there! Damn, did I just defend Cuttino? *shudder* Ick. Must take bath!!! ------------------ Just shut up and post [This message has been edited by Dr of Dunk (edited July 20, 2000).]
I just would seriously like to have clearified how it is the Rox management and Orginization has a good record for people wanting to be here? Heres a short list of players who go on record as to hating Houston or have a dislike for the team for how they were treated Mario Elie Robert Horry Kevin Willis Othella Harrington R. Rhodes Scottie Pippen T. Ham Sam Cassell (At least at first I believe) Maybe even Glyde himself. Throw in that McDyess chose Denver over Houston The potential loss of Mobley Shandon Anderson saying it was a mistake coming to Houston through his agent (as reported by Clutch) early in the 99 season Some real solid draft maneuvering in recent years About the only Veteran that says anything good about Houston is Hakeem, and a retired Chuckwagon Lets face it, Houston was a hot spot 2 years ago. Right now, it would be real hard to convince any Webbers next year to join the team. My 2 cents.
I think it's hotter. All of those players you listed besides Pippen were bitter because of trades. You will find that ANYWHERE. No player is going to love the organization that trades you. If you got moved to another city by your organization after working there for years, would you like your company? That's the way it is with NBA trades with ANY team. McDyess chose Denver over Houston after our serious talks with Pippen had already begun, and it was clear he'd be our second option after Pippen. Anderson said it was a mistake TWO WEEKS INTO THE SEASON!!! That was when the Rockets couldn't find him shots, he averaged under 7 ppg, and they consistently lost. By the end of the season, he was very intregal in the offense, had increased his scoring to over 12 ppg with several nights of 30+, and we consistently won. He was upset over not being included and the Rockets not getting him involved in the offense. If you didn't read that, or if you can't see that he is you need your eyes checked. We have done perhaps the best draft maneuvering in the NBA, with the ONE exception of Lewis. We draft Dickerson at 14. Mobley at 41!!! Kenny Thomas at 22 when all the other players available then amount to nothing. We trade for Steve Francis, the #2 pick in the draft. We have one of the top up and coming teams in the NBA. Everyone across the NBA likes Houston, and as Clutch said himself about two weeks ago, it was more than just cap space that attracted guys like Pippen and McDyess to us. He said that that is the case this summer as well. I don't believe Cuttino is gone yet, and if he is one selfish brat doesn't determine everything. If I were a hot free agent like Webber, and could get the money here, and comparing Houston to other teams with projected cap room next year, I would come here in a heartbeat. Now more than ever. ------------------ http://www.saveourcuttino.com [This message has been edited by The Cat (edited July 22, 2000).]
I am just curious, but where does anyone get any idea's about Webber coming here? I read an interview with him recently where he said he wants to win more than anything else. I think his exact words were "more than anyone can understand" Like...he is almost 29 by season 2002. NO WAY does he go to a non contender. He is already dropping hints that he is gone from Sacremento. Look at his reaction to Delk (and Maxwell last year) leaving. I think he'll force a trade to a contender BEFORE the trade deadline this season. ------------------
If Houston gets Webber, and another player along the way (Lewis, Croshere?) then they are a big time contender in my opinion. Undoubtedly. ------------------ http://www.saveourcuttino.com
Lets clearify a tad more.... McDyess had already chose Denver over Houston before Scottie was choose by Houston. Making Houstons decision a one way ave. Elie was not traded, Willis was all but lied to. Then sent packing to hell in the NBA. Lets not forget Tha Original Big Dog was asked out of retirement then shipped out. Cassell knew hed be getting more time being shipped out, should of been praising the lord. And Glyde didnt leave to a great set of circumstances Shandons remarks: Lets see thats probably the two biggest free agents in 2 years in him and Pippen who had the same gripe Sorry, but no one in the NBA is looking at what the Rox did in the draft this year and thinking: "Wow, what a series of moves" Im not saying I know the future, but as of NOW Lahngi and Collier just aint cutting it. Yeah you have Dickerson and Mobley to say good drafts. But you also have: Drew Turkan Vension Hamilton Washington and Rhodes Kicking you in the face. Kenny Thomas? Cmon the guy didnt do anything last year of consequense. Besides shoot 40 percent, play horrible D, rebound pretty well, and launch 3 after 3. Right now, Id say Kenny hasnt proven to be a STEAL in my books
Dreamshake, despite your experience in posting, and avid participation. I'd have to say that outta the players you listed, only Scottie Pippen and Rhodes have anything bad to say. Robert Horry would gladly come back. Sam was feeling sad he didn't get the chance to run with chuck. Othella wants BACK in Houston, and hasn't said anything bad about the Rockets. "Glide?" you've gotta be kidding me-- Blame that one on his relationship with Chuck. Otherwise you're looking at a wonderful year in 95, and strong showings by the following uninjured squads. Kevin Willis enjoyed his season, but understood that business is business. Throw in the fact that Rhodes showed he had incapable offense and didn't deserve the PT he demanded from Rudy. If you feel your role is to shoot the ball when everyone know's you can shoot, then there's gonna be some problems. So, we're left with Pippen. That greedy SOB..who showed this past season, he can't do anything without MJ. Houston is just losing it's popularity.. based on it's aging veterans.. (who will soon depart.) and the loss of competitiveness as a result. -Elie17 p.s. Elie signed with SA.. but Houston didn't want him holding down the spot either. He proved to have "old legs" and couldn't handle the quicker guards. ------------------
WHAT?! Mario Elie- the guy pretty much threw in the towel after the Raptor trade rumors surfaced. Robert Horry- stood around the three-point line and impregnated Calvin's daughter... Besides, according to something I read not too long ago, Horry's actually PRAISED the Rockets and pimps them all the time when around other players... Kevin Willis- I don't recall him saying anything negative about the Rockets. As I recall, he was oe of the classiest guys ever considering his situation and he said something to the effect of "understanding this is a business..." Othella Harrington- Again, I don't recall anything but kind words from the Fella... R. Rhodes- When was this? Scottie Pippen- How the Hell does this ******* get ANY credibility? I'm not even going to beat the dead horse by arguing against his b****ing... T. Ham- Yeah, we took a chance on a potentially great fat guy and he wouldn't give up the cheeseburgers... Sam Cassell (At least at first I believe)- Sammy was hurt, no doubt, but he hasn't condemned the Rocks. Glide- Yeah, sure he did. Considering he's ALWAYS talked about winning the '95 title and finishing out with Dream as a dream come true... Antonio McDyess- didn't come because Quitten singled out allready and Maloney was to run the point... As a poster said recently when talking to McDyess at the movies, Antonio would love to play in Houston. Shandon Anderson- If you took less tosign with a team that had FOUR superstars, but after you signed one of the superstars threw a hissy fit and left, I bet you'd think you made a mistake too... ----------------------------------- He are just two examples of our track record from the past year alone. Matt Maloney- rewarded with a ridiculous deal that was promised for not leaving the team prior to the 1997-98 season. Charles Barkley- given a huge salary boost for taking so little the previous year so the Rockets to accomodate Quitten. ------------------ WE WILL WATCH THEM FALL... Next year
Would you rather have Tim James? Dion Glover? A 22nd pick in a weak draft that has skills and can be a starting NBA PF is a steal IMO. Venson and Tyrone were 2nd ROUND PICKS!!! 95% are busts! What do you expect, every 2nd rounder to be Cuttino Mobley or Rashard Lewis? Newsflash, they aren't. Turkcan may net us a lottery pick in a year or so. No way that's a terrible move at this point. Drew is a legit starting NBA PG who just doesn't fit in here. But that doesn't take away from the fact that he is a good player. Rhodes was a nice player for us. Show me one picked after Rhodes that would have or will make a big impact in the NBA. SHANDON said that TWO WEEKS into the season!!! If you still believe that Shandon feels the same way, there is no hope. I would just about bet everything that I own that Shandon doesn't feel like that now. Anybody with common sense would realize this. And what FA is really going to care that Shandon Anderson took a couple of weeks to get adjusted to our offense? Especially since after that be broke out and blossomed into a player he probably could not have been on another team. To me, Shandon is a positive. And also, the Collier/Langhi thing- you said it yourself, it doesn't look impressive now. But Webber isn't until ONE YEAR. I'll bet a lot it does then. Elie was upset about the Stoudamire TRADE. Same thing. Mcdyess did not take himself out of the running for us until it had become apparent Pippen was our top target and we were close to landing him. That I remember. I also remember how much Austin Croshere loved his visit here. And how Rashard Lewis loves our team and wants to come home. And how Tim Duncan, the best player in the league, privately expressed interest in playing here, although it didn't turn out to be? If I were a young FA, I would be dying to come here. ------------------ http://www.saveourcuttino.com
I believe that last year when the Rumor mill had Pippen being traded for Horry and Rice it was Horry saying that he would not like to be back in Houston. Willis was not happy about being told one thing then being shipped to tha Grizz. What were Drexlers recent comments about the whole Chuck dilema...cant quite remember. Not to mention that he was all but forced into retirement. Rhodes was shipped after livid disagreements with Rudy. Agreed on Tham. Agreed on Cassel Dont forget about the Big Dog, and how he felt after being courted out of retirement, then being shipped. Mario may not of deserved the Money from a scoring standpoint, but damn didnt he help alot in the San Antonio run. And Pippen. I agree he was a whining punk. Look you guys are reading me wrong here. Im not saying that in each case the Rox were wrong, but it builds a strong case. The Rox history with its own free agents short of Barkley is pretty horrible.
Cassell, Horry, etc. were all never Rocket FA's. They were TRADED. And as for the other FA's- anybody can see why the Rockets didn't resign them and welcome them all back with open arms. Would you like to welcome back all of our own FA's like Willis, Elie Carr, etc., look nice, and have about the oldest team in the NBA and be on the downside? Sometimes you have to move on, get new players, and do things that aren't perfectly nice to win. That is the object of the game, and everyone can realize that. ------------------ http://www.saveourcuttino.com
