Welcome! Please take a few seconds to create your free account to post threads, make some friends, remove a few ads while surfing and much more. ClutchFans has been bringing fans together to talk Houston Sports since 1996. Join us!

There is not a trade out there worth the #1 pick...

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by DCkid, May 24, 2002.

Tags:

Page 1 of 3

DCkid Member

Joined:

Oct 15, 2001

Messages:

9,661

Likes Received:

2,706

A lot of you keep saying "Don't Draft Ming," but fail to come up with a worthy trade for the #1 pick. The trades proposed are either impossible monetarily (Garnett), unrealistic (#4 and Gasol), or most often, simply not enough for the #1 pick. In my opinion, there are three possible scenarios where I would consider making a trade a.) we can get a veteran who could start at center, and a top 5 draft pick to fill the SF position. b.) we get two stars (guys that would start on nearly every team in the NBA) to fill the positions at small forward and center. c.) we get one superstar/franchise player.

I really don't see us getting any franchise/superstar player. KG is the only one that's really been mentioned. Talent wise, just tell me where to sign. But with all the money issues, I just don't see how getting KG would work out. I don't think any other team would even consider giving up their franchise player for the #1 pick.

But, a lot of these players being talked about in possible trades just don't interest me . Here's some players mentioned that I don't want no matter what the entire, packaged trade is:

Camby - The most injury-prone player in the NBA, with the exception of Grant Hill. Maybe I would trade the 15th pick for him. No thanks.

Sprewell - I think he would have a negative effect on team chemistry, and he's an extremely streaky offensive players. Absolutely dreadful field goal percentage. No thanks.

Jamision - He would have to play the three position for us, and he's just simply not what we need there. He doesn't have ballhandling skills (Odom) or a deadly outside shot (Lewis). And he's not THAT great of a defender. He's a 4, not a 3. No thanks.

Olowokandi - Come on guys, this one's easy. Olowokandi quite simply sucks and he's going to be asking for a ton of money. PASS! notice the capital letters

McDyess - Very injury prone and in my opinion, a very overrated player. Averaged over 20 ppg only twice in his 7-year NBA career. Average double-digit rebounds only two seasons in his career. He's only averaged over 2 blocks per game once in his career. Even if he was healthy, I don't think he's worth a #1 pick. Plus, there's no way he can have the same athleticism he used to, which is the best thing he had going for him. Lastly, how many power forwards would that give us now? Pass.

Gasol - What position is he going to play for us? I would pass, but Memphis would too, so it doesn't really matter.

Anyone currently on the bulls - Curry and Chandler haven't even come close to proving they're going to be great NBA players. No thanks.

Draft picks after #5 - Its very possible the two best small forwards in the draft will be gone by the fifth pick. That would leave the Rockets with their third choice of small forward. In my opinion, that's not good enough for a #1 pick. So, there are only four teams I would consider trading with if a draft pick was inlcuded as a major part of the deal: Chicago, Golden State, Memphis, and Denver.

And now, two players, that I would like if the teams could put together a good package...but they can't.

Odom - While he's a good player and I like his talent, he is nowhere near worth a #1 pick in the draft. Plus, he's proven he doesn't care about his team or about winning. I would be more willing to make this trade if the Clippers had a top 5 draft pick to go along with Odom, but the best we could get is number 8. I think that's too low. And I've already stated that the Rockets should stay as far away from Olowokandi as possible. No thanks.

Lewis - I'm a huge Rashard Lewis fan. I think he'd fit in good with the Rockets. But worth a #1 pick, he is not. And Seattle has no high draft picks to go along with him. Pass.

Basically, I don't think the Rockets should trade the #1 pick. But there has been ONE trade proposal that I did like. The Rockets have to include some filler. The trade that very much interests me is Finley and LaFrentz for the #1 pick. I'm not saying I would definitely do it, but it would be something to consider. You would be getting two all-star, or near all-star caliber players to fill both the positions you need the most help with. I would probably end up doing this trade...unfortunately Cuban won't.

#1 DCkid, May 24, 2002

solid Member

Joined:

Apr 10, 2001

Messages:

21,211

Likes Received:

9,040

Interesting post. I think you are right.

#2 solid, May 24, 2002
giddyup Member

Joined:

Jan 24, 2002

Messages:

20,466

Likes Received:

488

Great summation, DCKid.

However I still wouldn't do the Finley-LaFrentz deal either.

I say keep the pick and evaluate which of these three have the largest upside with the least risk: 1. Ming, 2. Nic Tz and 3. Q Woods.

If we can move down to get one of those while picking up something... fine.

I'd love to stock up on 2nd round picks and detain some of these Euroballers for future Rocketball sleepovers.

#3 giddyup, May 24, 2002
mr_gootan Member

Joined:

May 23, 2001

Messages:

1,616

Likes Received:

121

Don't forget the aspect of relieving ourselves of restricting contracts in any trade. I am still a proponent of pressuring Chicago into flip-flopping picks with us.

Cato, Collier, KT, 1 for Chandler, Robinson, 2.

Chandler really came on at the end of last season when given the playing time. Don't sell him short. If you aren't convinced, getting rid of Cato and Collier should at least make you think about it.

#4 mr_gootan, May 24, 2002
glynch Member

Joined:

Dec 1, 2000

Messages:

18,072

Likes Received:

3,601

Excellent summary.

The only other team with the guys to interest me potentially is Portland. How about Rasheed, and Davis or Rasheed and Bonzi. Portland has loads of Players and can afford to take Cato, Glen Rice and pay whatever luxury tax fees Mr. Mirosoft feels like.

I'm inclined to keep Yao. This is of course based on our guys finally checking out that Yao is the real deal.

I would be quite happy to be a game or two out of the lottery or a 8th seed and out in the first round if the Rockets were clearly viewed as the team with the best up and coming players. With a little luck, that can be the case with Yao and a good pick at 15. Imagine if all of a sudden the Clippers, the Pacers and Chicago were all viewed as just being young, and definitely a step behind the Rockets in the young talent department.

#5 glynch, May 24, 2002
steddinotayto Member

Joined:

Aug 10, 2001

Messages:

19,116

Likes Received:

20,870

realize that portland's a team that wants to win NOW and not trying to build for the future. this is proven by their roster. and i don't want to ever see rasheed wallace in a rockets uni. talented yes. basketcase also yes.

#6 steddinotayto, May 24, 2002
german rocketfan Member

Joined:

Jul 24, 2001

Messages:

257

Likes Received:

0

I agree,nice post.

But perhaps i would be interest in Curry or Chandler if Chicago offering the 2nd and Chandler and a future fisrt round pick for Collier and 1st or something like that.

I'm not sure about Lewis,maybe he could be worth a #1 pick.He's still developing and could be another future star.Plus he would defenitely fit with the team.

#7 german rocketfan, May 24, 2002

giddyup Member

Joined:

Jan 24, 2002

Messages:

20,466

Likes Received:

488

Who does Chicago really want?

#8 giddyup, May 24, 2002
barbourdg Member

Joined:

Jun 9, 2000

Messages:

1,271

Likes Received:

1

Do I hear a cheer for Shawn Marion?

Odom might not be worth the #1, but he is worth a trade for him, 8th & 12th pick.

#9 barbourdg, May 24, 2002
nilsrock Member

Joined:

Sep 15, 2001

Messages:

138

Likes Received:

0

Yeah, who does CHI really want?

I think they want either Yao or Jay, but whom of the two they would prefer i don't know. I think Jay would be a better fit for them since they alredy have Curry and Chandler, but maby they're after the marketing benefits and extra profits that Ming would bring.

#10 nilsrock, May 24, 2002
Rocket River Member

Joined:

Oct 5, 1999

Messages:

65,168

Likes Received:

32,865

Only Trade i would like outnof chicago is

ROSE + #2 for FILLER [KT *gulp*, MoT whatever not the big 3] + #1

This way we could get Rose to play 3
And get Ming
Cause they want Jay Williams. . .i doubt they would trade
the pick . . because they want J Will and already have 2
'CENTERS OF THE FUTURE'

Rocket River
Out side of J rose. . . i dunno anything Chicago has that i like

#11 Rocket River, May 24, 2002
Live Member

Joined:

Dec 4, 2000

Messages:

2,025

Likes Received:

0

Great post.

#12 Live, May 24, 2002
steddinotayto Member

Joined:

Aug 10, 2001

Messages:

19,116

Likes Received:

20,870

i just thought of something. maybe there IS a way to get KG.

Rockets trade:

#1
KT
Collier
Mobley

Toronto trades:

Carter
Keon Clark
future 1st round

it's a theory that, when the financial terms are worked out, could be interesting.

why would rockets do this: wait til my next trade

why would toronto do this: they start over with mobley and a #1...either ming or williams would help them. and it's a #1 pick, this is what would make toronto fans come back to watch their team moreso. and toronto does have a fairly big asian population if toronto were to draft ming. also, this does solve the issue of toronto and carter. carter feels like he's not wanted and toronto has to stop thinking he'll be happy and trade him.

Rockets trade:

Carter
Clark
#15
Mo Taylor
toronto's future 1st rounder

Wolves trade:

Garnett
loren woods

why would rockets do this: simple. to get garnett. even though we're trading away steve's friend (cat to raptors) i find it hard to believe that steve would not want to play w/ KG. this would solve our big man need and also reel in a bench player in loren woods. if steve thinks cato is serviceable at the 5 then so be it. this way, we can move griffin to the 3 spot where mismatches will occur game after game.

why would the wolves do this: they start over plain and simple. with a back court of sczerbiak and brandon and a front court of nestorovic, carter, clark/mo taylor and then add in the #15 pick, this will 1. give them a pretty good team and 2. give them more salary cap breathing room . clark is a more than decent center and mo taylor, when skinnier, will be a decent 4. with the 15th pick, they actually have a chance to get a good player with how the draft is pretty deep this year. the 1st rounder from toronto will benefit down the line in other ways as well. but the key motivation is cap room. carter's 12-14 mil is little compared to KG's 20+ mil. this can get them another decent player.

crazy? maybe. possible? probably. but when we dreamcast, we should also have realization about whether or not the other team would be happy with a deal.

#13 steddinotayto, May 24, 2002

rhester Member

Joined:

Jun 14, 2001

Messages:

6,600

Likes Received:

104

I agree with your post, the only team that has anything of value would be the clippers with #8 and #12 pick and Odom.

To improve the Rockets would need to consider moving Francis:

How about Francis to the Bulls for Jamaal Tinsley, this year's #1 pick and their #1 next year.

Rockets draft Jay Williams, Yao Ming, Marcus (#15)

Or Francis to Golden State for their this year's #1, next year's #1 and Dampier.

Rockets draft Jay Williams, Caron Butler, Chris Marcus

?????????

#14 rhester, May 24, 2002
Darth West Member

Joined:

May 17, 2002

Messages:

197

Likes Received:

0

Very good post! ... ... It is indeed true that there are few if any good fits for a trade of the #1 pick. An additional complication is the hype around the pick ... just look at this board and the trade ideas that are brought up, such as #1 for Gasol, Battier and #4 or #1 and garbage contracts for KG ... With these expectations on a trade lots of people will be disapointed if a trade actually takes place ... Thus the the positive feelings about winning the lottery will be lost and Huston cant afford this right now with low ticket sales etc.

#15 Darth West, May 24, 2002
GATER Member

Joined:

Jun 25, 2000

Messages:

8,325

Likes Received:

78

Originally posted by steddinotayto
i just thought of something. maybe there IS a way to get KG.

NO. The trade does not work capwise and Keon Clarke is a QO FA and can not be part of draft day deals. Loren Woods has no contract at all (Unrestricted FA).

Trade declined.
Click to expand...

#16 GATER, May 24, 2002
GATER Member

Joined:

Jun 25, 2000

Messages:

8,325

Likes Received:

78

Originally posted by rhester
How about Francis to the Bulls for Jamaal Tinsley, this year's #1 pick and their #1 next year.

Or Francis to Golden State for their this year's #1, next year's #1 and Dampier.
Click to expand...

It is against the CBA to trade your #1 pick in two successive years.

#17 GATER, May 24, 2002
JoeBarelyCares Member

Joined:

Jan 9, 2001

Messages:

6,609

Likes Received:

1,883

Good post DC. The only possible trade that might make sense for both sides appears to be something with the Clips. It is dependent on how enamored the Rockets are with Odom. If they did this deal and received one of the Clips picks, they would need to draft a 5, and the only one available at 8 or 12 would be Marcus. So would the Rockets want Odom and Marcus over, say, Ming and Nachbar?

Keep in mind, the Rockets would also have to give up KT, Morris and Collier to match salaries for Odom, making the trade even more costly. KT has trade value with some other team, but what value would the Clips place on him, with Brand entrenched at the PF position, and with too many SFs already?

Unless Krause wants to do a crazy trade like Curry + the #2 pick, it really looks like the pick does not have as much value as we think. The only team you would think that would kill for it (outside of NY), is Golden State, who really has nobody we want.

#18 JoeBarelyCares, May 24, 2002

No Worries Member

Joined:

Jun 30, 1999

Messages:

32,848

Likes Received:

20,634

Originally posted by rhester
I agree with your post, the only team that has anything of value would be the clippers with #8 and #12 pick and Odom.
Click to expand...

Odom is not a franchise player. Brand is. I would do the trade with Brand.

#19 No Worries, May 24, 2002
DCkid Member

Joined:

Oct 15, 2001

Messages:

9,661

Likes Received:

2,706

This potential swapping of picks with the Chicago Bulls is very interesting. Of course, it only works for the Rockets if the Bulls definitely want Jay Williams over Ming. And I think it has become pretty obvious that the Rockets want Ming over Williams.

Why the Rockets would do it: It still allows them to get Ming, while at the same time prying away an extra player like an Eddie Robinson, Jalen Rose, Marcus Fizer, Curry, or Chandler. Hell, I would even do it if it was Travis Best. Why not? We'd still be getting our main guy AND someone who could contribute off the bench. Essentialy to do this trade, the Rockets would basically be acting like a-holes. I don't really mean that in a negative way, but that's essentially what they would be if you were a Bulls fan.

However, why would the Bulls do this? If the Rockets know the Bulls want Williams, and are trying to trade them our pick for the #2 pick and let's say Eddie Robinson, and the Bulls know that the Rockets want Yao Ming. Wouldn't the Bulls be better off refusing the trade? They would basically be calling our bluff saying, "you're not going to draft Jay Williams, you want Ming too much." Then if the Rockets did draft Jay Williams without a trade being agreed upon, they could possibly be stuck with him. I think the Bulls would have to be pretty stupid to agree to this trade, but then something kind of similar did happen in 1998. There was the Jamison/Carter trade, where the Raptors and Warriors picked back-to-back just like the Rockets and Bulls this offseason. The Raptors selected Jamison with the 4th pick, eventhough they really wanted Carter. They then got some extra cash out of it by trading Antawn Jamison to the Warriors for Carter and money. How cold was that? Not only did the Warriors trade Carter for Jamison, but they actually paid the Raptors money to agree to this trade. The Warriors were pretty much violated by the Raptors that night. That was criminal! I think I would've killed myself by now if I was a Warriors fan (not really). So, I don't know, with Krause at the helm, maybe there's a slim chance of this happening. But I just can't believe the Bulls would be that stupid to swap picks with the Rockets.

#20 DCkid, May 24, 2002

(You must log in or sign up to post here.)

Page 1 of 3

Share This Page