I was watching the Spurs-Suns game on NBA TV and Sean Elliott said that it took him 6 months to get used to playing for Larry Brown. He said its tough intially trying to play for a coach who is constantly breaking you down, when you have not been used to that style of demanding/in your face coaching. There are few coaches that are so demanding defensively and JVG is one of them. Defense is not fun It takes time to know how to play for swomebody who preaches nothing but defense. He's very demanding. Anderson and Alston are ballers, they play for the love and fun of the game. JVG doesn't make it a whole lot of fun. That's why there is an adjustment period playing for Van Gundy. I am not saying it's JVG's fault or the players. All I am saying is, be a little patient. There is no question that part of the offensive struggles are attributed to Van Gundy. It's not a coincidence that Anderson, Wesley, Swift and Skip are all shooting career lows at the same time. He's a defensive coach. He asks players to expend a lot of energy on defense. Sometimes you don't have the legs to shoot very well, especially at the begining of the season when some players are not in playoff game shape. And every game for JVG IS a Playoff game. That being said, they will all come around. Things would be a lot smoother if T-Mac was healthy. The length of the transition period will depend on how soon T-Mac can come back to establish the identity of the team and develop the much needed chemistry.
I don't think anyone is doubting that this team is going to take a while to get on the same page and learn their roles and accept them. The only thing that disappoints me more than anything else is soft/lazy players. I grew up admiring that tenacious east coast defense and physical play, which is why I admire Artest's style of play, for ex, and why I love the way the Pistons play, and wish we were more like them. For that reason, I can't stand softies like DA, and love guys like Sura who bring that tough mind-set to the team. IMO, physical play and tenacious 'D' has gotten a bad rep over the past few years (with the help and encouragement of the league's changing rules that are discouraging defense in the first place, of course). When you see a player like Bowen being b****ed about constantly because of the 'old skool' defense he plays, it speaks volumes about the mindset of today's players. So, I guess I am just bias like that, but I am really dying to see some tough guys on our team that I can genuinely believe that they will 'bring it' every night and fight to the bitter end; right now, I just don't see that fighting spirit that they had late last season, which is why you couldn't help but fall in love with those guys, win or lose.
not maybe, it's 100% true. good summary. last season, we went through the same adjustment period. someone with tracy MacGrady talent even strggled to adjust to JVG and his coaching methods. so what chance do DA and alston have?... give it time.
Last year JVG didn't change Tmac, Tmac changed JVG. He got JVG to loosen the reins (on offense) and we started winning. JVG was hardly a dictator on offense by the time we got Wesley, Barry, and James. This year JVG is right back to being the Stalin of offensive dictatorship.
Sura had license to do what Skip has not so far this season: penetrate and create. That's right, Sura the penetrator. Seems almost oxymoronic, but he did attack the hoop. He never gave to ball to Yao enough, so that's something we'll lose if Bobby comes back.
Please explain what you guys mean by "loosening the reins." Because it seems to me, right now, Tracy is having as much freedom as he did last year. In fact he taking a lot of very bad shots. His injury certainly makes it more difficult for him to get better ones as easily, but nevertheless, he's got his freedom. As for the other guys, and the team in general, what do you want JVG to do? You draw up plays, and run em. Am I missing something? It obviously is true JGV's players have a tough time playing of him at first. No denying that. I wish I knew more about Gundy's offensive philosophy and schemes. Because what gets me is these look like the same sets we ran last year when we were doing great. On the surface it does not look any more complicated than what other teams run. No? Maybe it is. Why else can't these guys execute it? Yeah, they are missing wide open looks, but its still a herky-jerky set, you know? VG always talks about passing up a good shot to get a great shot. Perhaps he is damn technical about it too. So maybe that's what Im missing, and what the players are learning how to do. We have all seen our guards out on the wing pass up an open Yao in order to put the ball back up top, so Yao can move to the middle or the other block in an effort to get an even better shot. Is that an example of the type of play where you think VG should loosen the reins? If leaning and running a VG offense is so hard then I wish either coach would start the guys out with some easy stuff, or hope that they hurry up and get acclimated to what he's got. lol.
Last year we started off with Yao as the #1 option. We dumped it to Yao constantly. Tmac himself said he felt obligated to defer to Yao. Tmac got permission to go wild because we were losing, which was probably smart because he's a much better scorer and playmaker than Yao is. Now, with Tmac injured, were back to Yao being the #1 option. Everyone else is tightly controlled. Look at Alston. He's a quick, dynamic point that we've basically turned into a spot up shooter. He's supposed to create easy looks for Yao and company, but instead Yao is bearing the responsibility of creating for the guards. See the problem? Yao is both #1 scorer and playmaker simultaneously and that just might be too big a load for even the biggest man on the court.
macfan, I agree with most of what you posted because I said basically the same thing before the season started. Maybe it's just the hard emphasis on defense that detracts from offensive output as you say or it's a combination of many things. Whichever or whatever, playing for JVG is not like playing for most NBA coaches and initially it's very hard for most players. That all said, some players never adjust to him. Examples: Two years ago, Cat Mobley and Kelvin Cato adjusted well, SF did not (except during the playoffs). Last year, Mo Taylor never adjusted while JH eventually came around. My concern is some of the current players on this team may never adjust to JVG. DA may be too soft and too set in his ways. Stromile is starting to show signs of life and that has me hopeful. I felt he would be the slowest to adjust based on how long it took JH last year. The player I'm really concerned about is Rafer. Because of how thin the Rockets are at PG, we really need him to step up and be productive. His ball handling, passing skills and court vision are good enough, but something is way wrong. Why doesn't he lead the break more? Why doesn't he penetrate more? The Spurs game reduced his assists/turnover ratio to 2.7 to 1, which is OK, but 4.1 APG doesn't cut it for me. Unless he becomes a deadeye outside shooter, taking care of the ball is not good enough. He's got to start making things happen on the offensive end because his defense stinks and he needs to make up for it. Rafer is no All-Star, but he has skills and had better start putting them to use. You are probably right about Tracy's health being the key to a successful transition for our new players. I wish they could adapt better on their own, but that looks like wishful thinking. Rafer and Stro must start getting it or we are in real trouble. While the emergence of Luther helps cover for DA, Wesley's struggles make DA another key piece to our success. We might need another early trade to clear out dead wood if things don't improve. Good thread macfan.
jvg doesn't have any tighter reigns on this team then he did last year when we were clicking offensively. the one and only difference is that the 4-headed guard monster of sura/wesley/barry/james were NAILS on jump shots last season. jvg is not restricting our players from hitting wide-as-f@#K-open jumpers. that's on them. obviously, with the reincarnation of the fire/trade jvg threads, alot of people didn't learn their lesson last year. i think macfan is right on as far as taking time to gel and get used to his style of coaching. it looks to me like the new guys(particularly alston) are scared to mess up. as soon as they loosen up, which they will, the jumpers will start to fall.
Howbout bringing in someone like Wesley person or Glen robinson?.. there good shooters who can help us out?.. just an idea.
100% disagree. VG from Day 1 at Houston has been in favor of pushing tempo in transition O. The vision of him waving his arms at Francis is etched into my brain. Jim Jackson's idea of pushing tempo was parking himself at the 3 point arc and letting someone else go to the basket. Enter Wesley and the transition O improves. Ty Lue walked the ball up as well as Francis. Enter Barry. Transition O improves. Sura comes off the IL...transition O improves. This year, Sura is back on the IL, Wesley is rounding out from knee surgery, Barry is a year older, DA so far has been terrible in transition O & D and although 75% of this board favored Alston, he is no Mike James in transition. Net result = terrible transition O = no easy baskets = added pressure on half-court sets. If you don't get easy transition baskets and you miss wide open jumpers in the half-court set...you could run the Kings' motion offense and still look terrible.
Every guard we have is shooting below their career averages. What makes you think Person or Robinson won't also crater once forced to play defense in JVG's system? If our guards were just hitting their open jumpers, we'd probably have 3 more wins. Eventually, law of averages will come around and folks will start hitting their shots. I am also looking forward to Sura's return.
I think the TMac changed JVG thing is way over-cooked. It's not like JVG learned offense from TMac. When Mac first came, he was cautious, because he was the new comer, and tried to make Yao the option #1, as for JVG, the experiment failed. Because 1. Yao wasn't ready, 2. the team wasn't ready. And 6-11 is certainly long enough for an experiment, the team decided to change directions. That's why the conversation occurred, where JVG let TMac be TMac and let him take over. I just don't buy it that JVG was simply convinced and changed or even transformed to another JVG after the conversation with TMac. What exactly different was JVG? He still preaches defense every single game or minute, just he let TMac be a super player as he is, which he never had before. I don't think JVG is changed at all.
For certain players, the adjustment period excuse may be valid. Alston, for instance, looks like he’s trying a little too hard to adjust to Van Gundy and looks afraid of making a mistake. Once he loosens up and becomes more familiar with the system, I think he’ll play better. The point guard position has a lot of responsibilities on this team. I don’t know if I buy this excuse for Derek Anderson though. He looks very erratic out there with all the off balance shots and the turnovers. I don’t think his problem is that he’s timid and needs time to adjust as much as it is, he’s just not all that good anymore after all of his injuries. But, it should not be ALL on the players to adjust to Van Gundy. Van Gundy is going to have to adjust to the players as well. There should be a give and take relationship. Van Gundy gives the players a little more freedom. The players follow his instructions a little better. Thus far, neither the coach nor the new players (sans Luther Head, the rookie) have done a good job of adjusting.
True but TMac and Yao were healthy and everybody wasn't in a slump. Wesley and Sura went into a slump later in the year. It's easy to look good when you are hitting your shots. If not, then you gotta depend on team chemistry more to get open looks and setup other players. That's where we are having problems now. On offense, they all look awkward running their set plays. TMac cures that ill, when healthy, cause he has the ball so much and everybody else just needs to find open spots. Without TMac and w/ shooting slumps, we can't pull ourselves together just yet. aka adjusting.
