Face it, Shaq isn't even the MVP of his own team. The Wade Effect is more important to the Heat than the Shaq Effect. Next season will prove it beyond a doubt either way, but the playoffs have already pretty much answered it already. If Wade doesn't play Game 7, Monday is a formality even if the Heat give an inspired effort. Wade is a superstar with or without Shaq and "Diesel" can forget about a $60 million/2yr contract pipedream.
True. It's not about the Heat lost without Wade. It's about them losing so pathetically without Wade. The Heat has been a no show since the second quarter and scored just 66 pts. Shaq played a good game but he couldn't get the Heat into sync.
What's so weird about that? Did you honestly expect the Heat to even come close to beating the World's Champs in an elimination game without one of their star players? There is no conclusion that can be derived from this game other than that you need to be in full health/shape to beat the world champs. If McGrady or Yao went down and you played the Spurs, would you have a chance in hell to beat them? Even with Wade the Heat would struggle to beat the Pistons. It's funny how people wait for something to happen so that they can jump all over it and say "see? I told you so!"
It was just one game. Seriously if Shaq is on he is on and he will dominate. He's just huge. I was going for Pistons at first but now I want to see Heat beat the Pistons. They need to give it to Shaq.
My conclusions, as stated above, are that Wade is the Heat MVP and he is a superstar without Shaq. Also stated above, the proof will be next season when it becomes REALLY obvious. I basically said this in the other thread BEFORE Wade was injured. Wade also led the Heat to 8 consecutive playoff wins without Shaq. If the situation was reversed, I doubt very seriously the Heat would have been 8-0. You have your opinion, I've got mine. I've always wanted the Heat to win this series. And now I'm so totally anti-Larry Brown I can't see straight. If Shaq dominates Game 7 and the Heat win, I will happily eat a little crow however you prepare it.
I've been on the side of Dwayne Wade ever since people started talking about Shaq for MVP. The Heat have been winning at the same rate when they haven't had Shaq as they have with him, but they struggle when Wade is out. If Shaq was still as dominant as people think he is the Heat would have scored more than 66 points. Detroit guards Shaq with Ben Wallace who gives up way to much size to Shaq.
The Spurs are better than the Rockets anyway, but we stand a chance without Yao. McGrady can get his team wins when he is having a dominate game. McGrady is our most important player much like Wade is for the Heat. Yao and Shaq are both secondary players on their teams.
You smoking something, right?! Rockets would "stand a chance" without Yao in the lineup? That alone tells me all I need to know about your b-ball knowledge As for Wade, of course he is a star player, I don't think anyone would ever deny that. If you think he is better than Shaq (I don't know how you can make that comparo since they play different positions, but OK) then that's fine, it's your opinion. I think it is important to remember Shaq is playing with a deep thigh bruise, so he is nowhere near 100%. But OK, let's say you are right and Wade is THE man on that team. If you think that the Heat wouldn't be SWEPT by the Pistons without Shaq in the lineup, then you are smoking something. The Heat MIGHT (but doubtful) stand a chance to win one game against the Pistons without Wade or Shaq, but they would be easily disposed of if one of these guys is not playing. The Heat need BOTH Shaq and Wade healthy and playing well to be able to compete with the Pistons. So basically it is dumb to say "oh, a tem can win if you take so-and-so off the team while the other plays", because these teams are built around BOTH stars, not just one. They BOTH need each other EQUALLY, no one is better than the other. But they are both exceptional when they play together, they compliment one another very well. So basically, I think the whole debate is pointless, because the team is built around BOTH players, not just one or the other. It is similar to the Rockets being built around both Yao/T-Mac, not one or the other. Thankfully, we will probably have our core players for a while longer than the Heat's
Shaq can dominate all he wants and STILL they will lose against the defending world champs Pistons. This is a team game, remember? I think we have seen enough of that in the Dallas series to understand the "team" concept pretty well: that is even if McGrady/Yao are the best duo in the playoffs (scoring the most of any two players in the playoffs), the Rockets would only go as far as their role players would take them. They stink it up, we lose, despite McGrady's 30+ and Yao's 25+
I love Wade's game, he is fantastic. At times, Jordanesque. His injury is devastating and the timing couldn't be worse. I can't see him performing at peak level in game seven. The Pistons are going to be all over the Heat. The Heat are just too beat up. And if they by some miracle do move on, the Spurs may sweep them.
The original discussion was whether Wade was a superstar by himself or was it a result of the Shaq effect. If you agree he is a superstar by himself, congrats! juicystream's statement is true to an extent, but let's not take it too far. T-Mac is WAY BETTER than Yao. I'm not prepared to say Wade is way better than Shaq, but he IS better. The Rox without Yao would win a whole lot more games than the Rox without T-Mac. The Heat proved they could win 8 playoff games in a row without Shaq. They would not have done so without Wade. Speaking of the role players, they clearly seem to feed off of Wade more than Shaq, IMO. I don't believe they are equal now. At the beginning of the season, maybe Shaq was more important. I can't say. But now, it's clear who the Heat MVP is. Like you said tigermission, they need both to have good games today or we must endure the Pistons in the Finals again.
How about this... They need both, Shaq makes them contenders, but he needs Wade to make him a champion. I've thought that about Shaq and Kobe too.
It takes two to tango. Even if a player will make your team a "good" team, that means nothing in the end. The bottom line is, you need two superstars (or a bunch of good players like the Pistons have) to make your team get to the next level. Shaq can't do it solely alone, nor could Wade. Same is true for most players in the league.
Exactly. My problem is with everyone giving Shaq all the credit, he deserves a lot, but so does Wade. I don't remember you giving your opinion on what happens tonight...
Detroit +2 under 177. Wade is hurt on his shooting side, and will not be as effective, since his strength is driving to the basket. He'll have to rely on his ball-distribution skills, which means it's good for the Pistons. Like Freak said, Wade is replaceable, Shaq is not.
Yes, Miami is favored. It's basically a pick 'em tonight. +/- 2 is nothing. There's no default point total that is awarded to the home team.
I'm not talking about an entire series here. I'm just talking about one game. TMAC could get a victory against the Spurs by himself, the exact same way Allen Iverson did against the Lakers in the finals. Don't ever question my Basketball IQ because I guarantee its very high. People should also realize that every player is hurting in some way at this time of the year. Bob Sura's knees and back are bad, so lets call him an all-star because he would be way better if he was ever completely healthy, or Jeff Bagwell is still one of the best first baseman in the league, but he's hurt. Injuries aren't a good excuse, especially when you are getting hurt every year like Shaq is. His body is breaking down. I'm not saying Shaq isn't the best true center in the league because he is, but DWade is more important to the team.
