The TJ Ford Theory (rebounding)

I can understand the 'help the transition D' argument, but as far as the fast break, Francis can't even run it when he's ahead of the pack. He never forces any action. But I like the suggestion, because he just doesn't need to be in there grabbing boards anyway -- he expends extra energy, and he risks injury. The fast-breaking though, he just sucks at.

 

Even though I feel that little to none of what works in college basketball translates to the pros, your argument is valid, though I would have applied it to last year's team rather than the current crop of players.

Francis was top 20 in the league in offensive rebounding last season, which is insane. Even if we assume that he just has a proclivity for rebounding, crashing the boards on the offensive end that much is more of a detriment to, than a positive for, the team.

He's just instinctive on the defensive end with his rebounding. Maybe last season he was getting some unneccesary boards on that end, but not enough to where it stuck out in my mind, or to where it had an adverse effect.

As far as the fastbreak goes, he's really bad. I, unlike others though, only blame him for not capitalizing on the chances he does get. I don't think he's the reason there's a lack of fastbreak opportunities to begin with. Defense, which in turn forces teams into long outside shots, has always been the source of fastbreak opportunities. A player who pushes the ball incessantly rarely gets easy baskets. It is all contingent on defense, and more specifically, interior defense. The Rockets match up very poorly inside with the rest of the league, and thus, we rarely see teams try to beat us from the outside.

Hence, no fastbreaks.

Of course, I could counter what I just said by saying "then why the hell don't the Sixers, who play great team defense, get more fastbreak points?". That's where the question of personell comes into play. Matt Harping and Derrick Coleman aren't going to win any 100 m relays anytime soon, and Cookie Monster Mutombo's canter up the floor doesn't mesh well with a fastbreaking game.

Thankfully, the Rockets don't have that problem. They just lack the defensive solidarity of the Sixers, which should come with the experience of repeated failure with whatever they've been trying to do on that end.

 

Tj has been told by several sources he stays in college a few more years and hes a high draft pick.

So dreaming about Tj coming out early won't happen he is one of the few Willowridge eagles who have a brain who were on that championship team.


Then again after reading the post a little closer I apologize I misunderstood

 

tpl,

I agree with your "defense creates fastbreaking," because that is damn sure why Chicago and SA got so many during their title years. However, that is no way to describe a fastbreaking team, which I know you weren't really trying to say. I just like to strike a difference between fastbreaking systems and fastbreaking "opportunities." It is a passion of mine, because it is probably what I know the most about basketball. Our coaches in Illinios preached it at from 7th grade on. That was one thing they could guarantee we knew how to do, regardless of year to year talent.

Fastbreaking is a system, just like defense. Defensive teams like Chicago (of title years) and SA aren't categorized as fastbreaking teams...they are defensive teams.

The difference is in the fact that fastbreaking systems is an offensive strategy. Fastbreaking is mistakenly thought of as only the rush to the basket or a trailer or 3. That is not the way fastbreaking teams practice. They practice outlets and secondary breaks. The primary break cannot really be taught (by and large), hence why Rudy can't make Francis better at it. But, we can still become a fastbreaking team by concentrating on getting the ball into a dribbler's hands as quick as possible and learning a structured secondary break.

As for the rebounding, Major makes a good case. Francis really should consider bagging it until the 4th quarter. He has pulled down some game-winning rebounds late in the game, for sure. But quite often, he is just stealing a rebound from a frontliner who was boxing out his man.

 

Rebounding is extremely important. Much more important than running. Not only does it take away a possession for the other team. It gives you possession. That's potentially 4 points every time he get's one.

Let me add one thing to that. When's the last time you saw a fast break in the playoffs.

 

I'd have to agree with the general sentiment of this thread so far.

I would love to see Francis sacrifice a few rebounds to help initiate pushing the ball up the floor. The Rockets do have the personel to run up and down the court, and fastbreaks are so fun to watch.

And if it boosted the rebounding averages of our frontcourt guys we would have less frontcourt b****ing threads

It just makes me appreciate Kidd even more ... with all the rebounds he snags, his d, AND how much he pushes it up the court. Guy has a motor that wont stop.

 

Somebody boxed out? I try to pay careful attention to every game, but I must have looked away for a second. Are you sure?

Seriously, we are a bad defensive rebounding team even with Steve concentrating on the boards.

 

point was, as much as Francis steals a rebound from an opponent, he seems to steal one from a teammate. How many times have you seen him shoulder to shoulder with a frontliner who wasnt really jumping, because he had the rebound, and Francis takes it from him.

Who cares, except for the effect it has on what Major said.

PhiSlamma,

No one is belittling rebounding. We are merely saying that Francis's rebounding may or may not be overall a gain, given the theory that running should produce the highest % offensive possessions. Like Crisco said though, Francis's rebounding shouldn't matter in fastbreaks (since Payton, Magic and Kidd all rebound(ed) well, too), just that Francis rarely takes off when he pulls one down, unlike Kidd and Payton who will immediately take off after they get a rebound.

 

I don't know about this. If this can't be taught, Francis must really be dumb. I mean, all he has to do is push the ball up the court. Force the action. If my coach tells me "you need to push the ball up the court when you get the outlet", I don't think those instructions are that hard to follow. Yet Francis doesn't do it. Whose fault is this?

 

Whatever happened to passing the ball up the court?

 

I think what he was trying to say is that you can't teach the decision making/instincts of the fast break. Francis can push the ball all night but he's going to turn it over a lot with bad passes and bad decision making.

 

Texas has James Thomas cleaning the glass on the defensive end.

Houston has no one comparable, in terms of rebounding.

 

I still don't think it should be hard for a 25 year-old man to learn how to run a fast break. We practiced it all the time in junior high/high school.

 

I agree with you, and I explained this in the very next sentence that you left off in your quote of mine.

does that read better? You are absolutely right, imo. If we are having a semantics disconnect, let me know. I'm down for defining the difference between a "primary break" and a "secondary break." It *is* the beauty of fastbreak systems; just ask Larry Brown and John Calipari. You can probably find a good explanation of it if you do a google search for keywords: Calipari UMass Secondary Break or maybe "early offense" or something. He coached under Larry Brown.

 

I agree completely. I mean I really, really, really agree. I want to see our guys play some traditional basketball so badly it hurts. Our personnel really dictates that we play a more normal style of offense. I feel like the isolation offense is really a partial cause of all our problems.

The Rockets are like the Notre Dame of pro basketball. There is no deception involved. They are going to run the ball. They know they are going to run the ball. You know they are going to run the ball. The objective is to run the ball so perfectly that it doesn't matter.

We don't push the ball because our players have been instilled with the idea for several years that there is only one way to score. That is to execute the isolation offense in a half court set so perfectly that it cannot be stopped. The problem is that we don't have Hakeem in his prime anymore to make that successful.

 

I kinda agree wiht you PhiSlammaJamma, i never thought i'd see the day when we tell a player to stop going for rebounds

 

I just thought that this quote needed to be re-stated. I have seen several times this year that Francis has taken a rebound from the hands of Cato or someone else. There have also been several times where too many Rockets hands in the mixed caused a fumbled rebound to end up in the hands of an opposing team or out of bounds.

While I refuse to fault someone for husseling for a rebound I have to agree with the over all sentiment of this thread...Francis should try laying off the boards and see what happens.

I'm just curious if anyone has bothered to look at our team rebounding while Francis was out in December and January and compared it to when he played. Also what has Cato's rebounding been with Francis vs. what is was like with out Francis.

 

I started a thread similar to this last season. And I do agree. Even if it results in more turnovers for Steve early on, I think the repetition of just pushing the break every chance he gets will eventually improve his decision making abilities. If nothing else, it would be an interesting experiment to try in these last 10 games or so.

 

knifejc,
We're not talking about just fast breaks, but early offense as well (which you do see in the playoffs). Also, the reason you don't see fast breaks very often in the playoffs is not because the teams aren't adept at running them, but because the high level of defensive intensity often thwarts them. That doesn't mean you don't bother trying. If you never try, them what is to keep the other team from crashing the defensive boards with all 5 players on every possesion? What is to force the other team into expending energy on the defensive end of the game?

You have to have that threat.

Besides, if it wins you 4 more games during the regular season, them it is worth it. That could be the difference between a few seeds in the playoffs, or home court advantage against a tough opponent.