Well alot of people debate over the need of a SF. I'd like to discuss our draft scenario and see whether most would draft a SF or PF. this is fairly long btw. First off lets start with what exactly a SF does. the SF is usually a wing position that is versatile and can score in a variety of ways. when people say forward they usually think of players that play mid range or inside some. "Small Forward" of course deals w/ guys that arent primarily post players but all around threats especially from the wing. there are different types of SFs all over in the NBA. some are permiter threats some are postup. some are both. here are some players that are typical SFs... or they are postup players who have SF aspects of their game SAR, garnett, jamison, nowitzki, a.walker, marshall - all have postup aspects and play almost a combo forward. kuckoc, sczerbiak, mcgrady, pippen ( grr), carter, mashburn, - more true SFs n w/ the exception of pippen/masbun can really shoot houston's supposed "ideal SF" is a guy who can shoot the 3, play Defense, is athletic, is rangy, has fundamentals, and can put the ball on the floor. i can imagine they dont want francis in there rebounding so much.. so RBs is probably important also. Next lets look at our current SF situation. Shandon Anderson is likely to leave. langhi probably isnt ready to immediately play SF. even if we keep shandon i dont think he's really worthy of a starting role. walt is... walt... not worthy of a starting SF role. Really developed small forwards can cause FITS for other teams. especially if they are athletic. if they can go up and down in transition in finish it makes opponents get back. if they have a postup game that is good it causes a big man to double down leaving an existing big man open. on our team this could help as mo taylor, collier, etc. can all shoot the ball. Different scenario would be a Small forward who can shoot the 3. walt couldnt hit worth jack last season and shandon shotputs his shot almost. now francis and mobley are too dangerous to single cover when they go to the basket requiring defenses to collapse. next season alot of defenses will collapse even more w/ the zone. now if we drafted a SF who could shoot the 3 it'd spread the defense out considerably. and it'd be very difficult to play a box in one w/ francis becuz mobley would still be open. now SFs w/ a mid range game cause even more problems. marion plays the mid game very well. he got a ton of points from kids penetrating. especially that play where one of our shooters gets a back pick and pops up to hit a J from the free throw line. that shot is usually easy enough where most semi good shooters can hit it. its the only play i saw walt consistently make. SFs that can handle the ball and pass allow for alot more creativity in the offense. they cant put a PG on them becuz the SF if he is smart will post him up all day. mcgrady posts up alot of smaller players and has such a superb mid range game that he rings in 27 a night. When we need a score they can slide over to point forward to help set up francis who has very good scoring abilities. a SF that can handle the ball also opens up transition oppurtunities. the defense will have to respect their explosive ability leaving som1 open for a quick stop n pop or if its an easy break simply a layup , dunk , alley oop , etc. if we got our tranistion game going we would win a good more deal games. alot of those older and offesnive minded teams simply dont want to run that much. look how bad charlotte whopped miami. they ran their asses off. the rockets dont have the guns to win all kinds of half court slug fests. often mobley/ francis will be doing all the scoring some nights. while our D needs to pickup considerably ... opponents esp. w/ the zone next season can make the guards take the ball out of their hands. lets take a look at some SFs AND situations 1.) richard jefferson OR a post player - woods,haywood jefferson is my choice for the rockets in my mock draft. CD has mentioned him b4 so i know they dont like have no intrest what so ever. jefferson is quick and athletic who can finish well in transition. his shot is improving and he showed much better release and rotation as the season went on. his passing got better as well. he needs to work on his ball handeling and a few fundamental aspects of playing SF. his mid range game is decent.. he needs some skill to go along w/ his great athleticism. the thing i like about him is that he is tough. he isnt a wuss at all and he is mentally strong. he rebounds the ball well. his numbers were solid but i wouldve liked to see him increase his scoring total. then again he played on an offesnse w/ so many weapons and college usually is a low scoring game. jeffersons D is versatile becuz he can guard some PGs, SGs, and SFs. he is also probably strong enough to guard some shorter PFs. jefferson doesnt have great height however. he is 6'7. not like 6'9 or 6'11 SFs the rockets would ideally like. he needs some work on his basic fundamentals. he is still learning the game. he isnt the most polished product. jefferson also has some post up moves becuz he was a post player in high school here are some scenarios. i want to see what every1 would do in each of these. i wont go into the post up players tho. 2.) joe johnson OR a post player- white, woods, haywood the rockets would likely have to trade for this guy. he has good height at 6'8. he has tremendous "basketball skillz" w/ his shooting, passing, handles, etc. also a great athlete. doesnt always play too hard tho and i think that could scare rudy T. he would make our transition game alot tougher as he could start fast breaks. his D is pretty decent. his #s actually went down a little his sophmore year. he is really young. i dont think he has a great postup game. 3.) trading for pau gasol OR trading for rodney white gasol is a player i dont know about. sweet shooting/height/versatility are things the rockets love. he also has a good mid range game and some postup moves. but the thing that concerns me is that he isnt like an awesome athlete w/ some quickness problems. i dont know if he could guard some quicker SFs. his #s were good considering the minute played but u have to consider.. its europe.. and in the nba its a much different game. im not sure if he can get up and down the floor that well either. defense ive heard he isnt too good at. 4.) terrence morris OR a post player- k. johnson, jones, dalembart, collins w/ one of the later picks the rockets could be intrested in morris. odvious advantages are a nice shot, great height, good athleticism, decent post up game, and he's pals w/ francis. also plays good D. problems are he doesnt seem motivated at times, doesnt like to be the man, doenst have a great mid range game, doesnt drive that much, and doesnt look to take over games. he also is passive alot and seems scared to shoot sometimes. his transition game is pretty good and his ball handling is ok. he is a senior which could help. pleaz tell me what YOU would do in all of these situations and why. and i am no expert on college players but ive seen most of the above play except gasol a few times. i dont however know each player inside and out. jefferson ive seen play 5 times. joe johnson 2 times, morris 4 times, 2 last season. i dont know everything about these players and if im not accurate let me know. i dont watch SFs play 24/7 either so im not an expert on anything i posted. and if there is a SF in free agency or realistically som1 to trade for who is it and why would they help the rockets. i dont really see trading for eddie griffin who would be awesome.... but i don think it happening. also if u feel that a SF is absolutely not important (HP ) let me know why. ------------------ --TEX [This message has been edited by TeXaSalsa (edited May 31, 2001).] [This message has been edited by TeXaSalsa (edited May 31, 2001).]
Langhi is in real trouble if the Rockets draft Joe Johnson and Wallace. He will never see the court. ------------------ President of the Steve Francis, Jamal Crawford,Larry Hughes, and Charles Woodson fan club.
Why? Langhi has almost as much athletism, possibly as much, as Wallace, and he's proven himself more on the college level (Player of the Year in the SEC over Swift). Plus Langhi has more NBA experience, and a jumper that's about 100 times better. Wallace has good hops and can dunk the ball. Not a good defender, can't shoot worth a lick, average dribbler... yeah that definitely makes him better than Langhi already. Wallace is so good he might be the next Jamal Crawford. ------------------ President of the Mo Taylor and Jason Collier fan club! Draftsource.net-- the premier source for draft info. Profiles, rankings, mock drafts, and more!
The Cat: "Why? Langhi has almost as much athletism, possibly as much, as Wallace" Ummmmmm.....NO You have got to be kidding. Not a chance. Langhi and MJ have never been mentioned in the same sentence. Wallace was called possibly the greatest high schooler ever. Dude has POTENTIAL. Throw in his freaky athleticism, the fact that he had to play the 4 at Alabama part of the year, and his outstanding work ethic and you will have a winning combination. ------------------ President of the (the Rockets first pick in the draft) fan club.
Wallace and MJ were mentioned in the same sentence? Big deal. Earlier in the year one of the analysts from a draft site compared Loren Woods to Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. Does that mean he's automatically that great or should be picked higher because of an off the wall comparison? I'm guessing you haven't sen Langhi play or warm up much. Langhi's athletism is insane... the team ballboy said his vertical is probably the highest on the team, and that includes even Stevie. And, even if you think Wallace has more athletism, who cares? It takes more than that to play well in basketball, despite what a few posters at this site would lead you to believe. It takes fundamentals and an overall game in several areas on both sides of the ball, and if you don't have that, your prospects for succeeding in the NBA usually aren't that great. And also, who cares what he did in high school? All these great HS players do is play against people obviously inferior in size, athletism, etc., and they can easily dominate. They learn very little about the team game, because they essentially are the team. Everything runs through them. And the lack of fundamentals for these players are not exposed when they have the size and athletism to simply dominate players inferior to them. Wallace hasn't shown anything on the college level imho to warrant much consideration by the Rockets with pick 22, and I certainly hope they don't take him there. If we look toward the SF spot with that late pick, I'd take Terence Morris with the good overall game, talent, experience, and maturity well before I'd take Wallace. ------------------ President of the Mo Taylor and Jason Collier fan club! Draftsource.net-- the premier source for draft info. Profiles, rankings, mock drafts, and more! [This message has been edited by The Cat (edited June 01, 2001).]
I like Langhi just as much as anybody,ever since I saw him play at the RMR, but the reality is at best he's going to be a 6th man which aint' that bad. He is not a starter in this league, and I hope the small forward the Rockets draft has the ability to step right in and start for this team. I would love to see Langhi start to be the primary backup 3 about 15-20 games into the season after he's adjusted to getting consistent minutes. He is our future backup small forward. And he is better than Gerald Wallace. Wallace has absolutely no shot. ------------------
Langhi might be good in practice, lets hope he brings his stuff in the game. But Langhi compared to Wallace athletism is kind of a joke. ( Sorry Cat ) Wallace has the Carter , Mcgrady type skills when its comes to high flying shots. Wallace has great defense, he can steal well and blocks shots like crazy. He reminds me of Tmac, tmac didnt have a shot when he came to the nba. But he worked on it and got better. Wallace needs time to learn that , but in a couple of years if he is on the right team to play alot, he will explode. I would love to take a wallace with the 22nd pick. ------------------ "Break off the block like Maurice Green" --- Steve Francis President of the Moochie Norris fan club.
i agree w/ TPL mostly. i think langhi definetly has a future in the NBA. not sure if he is gonna be a bona fide starter but u never know. he should get good min as a backup SF. hm who knows if he worked hard he could be a starting one maybe some day i don know. but he isnt ready to start next season. but langhi has 10 times the basketball skillz wallace has. john thompson i think said "potential gets coaches fired" n most "potential" players dont turn out too well. wallace right now looks more ready for a track meet then a basketball game. langhi as least has some "basketball skills" wallace plays good D becuz he is more athletic than any1 in college big deal lets see how well he guards nba players at his 6'7 height. it remains to be seen if wallace will be a good player. im curious to hear about his great "work ethic" when he averaged a measly 9pts a game 6ts vs. SEC.. didnt work on his shot much this year... and sinc he wants to work so hard at his game n he is going straight to the nba? most players stay in college for that reason. but neways i mainly started this topic to talk about the scenarios listed above. i want to hear from those who think SF is an important position n which SFs we should draft or sign. ------------------ --TEX [This message has been edited by TeXaSalsa (edited June 01, 2001).]
man, I really like that quote! I think it is insulting to the game of basketball to think any tall super athlete can play in the NBA better than Langhi. "Coach, can't I just do rebounds and alley-oops like on the playground." It is like how Jordan insulted baseball. Or how Renaldo Nehemiah insulted football.
Wallace has more athleticism than Langhi.....now if only he had 1/3 of the shooting ability Langhi has, he'd be on his way to superstardom. Too bad that's not happening. Wallace's shot is bad enough for the Bama coach to play him at the 4, not the 3, and be justified for his decision too. Francis3-Wallace doesn't have NEARLY the handles TMac had coming into the league, and he never will. Even if he develops a shot, he won't be as good as TMac. TMac is bigger, longer, quicker, a better ball handler, and a smarter defender. If I am going to gamble on a player becoming something at around 22, I'd rather go with a big man like Cisse, or hope K. Johnson becomes Ratliff II. With Prince now apparently out of the draft, if the Rockets don't go for Joe Johnson, Richard Jefferson, Pau Gasol, or the unlikely Shane Battier at 13, or a pick they moved up for, I'd bet they go big again, or draft T. Morris at 22. I heard on 610 that Morris' workout went very well. When has Rudy ever taken a swingman who can't shoot? ------------------ "That's been a lifelong dream of mine." -Vince Carter, after laying it in on a breakaway, much to the Vancouver crowd's displeasure.
Langhi is just as athletic as Wallace??????????? Are you crazy? This dude is 19yrs old and did a one handed wind mill on the run. The only other player player that I've seen do that is Vince Carter. And what does Jamal Crawford have to do with anything? Im talking about the Rockets drafting a small forward which means Langhi won't see any action. ------------------ President of the Steve Francis, Jamal Crawford,Larry Hughes, and Charles Woodson fan club.
OH MY GOD!!! HE CAN DO A WINDMILL DUNK!!! LET'S DRAFT THIS GUY, WHO CARES IF HE CAN'T SHOOT, HE CAN DUNK DURING WARMUPS!!!!! IS IT POSSIBLE FOR US TO SIGN SOME OF THE HARLEM GLOBETROTTERS TOO??? I BET THEY'D BE GREAT ON THIS TEAM, I MEAN THEY CAN DO SOME CRAZY STUFF WITH THE BASKETBALL!!! ------------------ I don't want to waste my time And become a casualty of society. I'll never fall in line Become a victim of your conformity and back down.
hey guys langhi has a future in the nba. so does wallace if he works hard. langhi is more proven. no arguing that this isnt a measure of vertical jumps thread. now then what SFs do u think would fit houston the best and what would u do in all of hte listed scenarios. ne free agents or trades u see that could happen? what SF would fit houston the best. ------------------ --TEX
I like the way you think, Nike. Morris and Cisse are draft sleepers. I'd love some of these other 3s, but the Hawks may take Battier (unless that's a ruse) anyway, and the others we covet will likely be gone. Yes, we could move up, but if we don't, Morris at 6'8" with long arms and athleticism and defense and long-range and post-up abilities could be the man. We don't need another leader (scoring or rah-rah!-type)---we've got Steve---so why not T. Morris? And he won't likely cost the team 9 million per in a few years. ------------------ [This message has been edited by ROXTXIA (edited June 01, 2001).]
TeXaSalsa, I didn't want to join this debate, since I've done it already, but I liked your quote and comment so much, I'll contribute my 2 cents, although I'm not going to try to follow your format. for starters, draft position by draft position, value for value, the only non-post player I'd consider in a post-player rich draft is that 7'1 Gasol. For instance, Griffen vs Brown, I'd take Brown. Battier I honestly believe Battier will be overpriced at any position. I would trade down to avoid picking him if I were in the top 10. If he falls to #13, I'd still consider trading that spot or just picking him for the sole reason to trade him later in the Summer. Jefferson Gut instinct is this is at best another Shandon with an extra inch and better hops...is that a shorter Horry who can't shoot? I don't like swing men who can't shoot/dribble, especially for the Rockets. These guys are a dime a dozen, and they are classic journeymen, easy to acquire in trades as the "player to be named later" guy. Under no circumstances would I draft this guy without the idea of trading him, unless I already scored Ken Johnson at #18 and Jefferson was still there at #22. There is better potential in Ken Johnson's effect on our defense than Jefferson, up and down all draft positions. You can say he will help a zone defense, but I counter that with the 180 degree philosophy of you can't attack a zone with Jefferson's as swingmen, nor do they anchor the zone anyhow. JoJo and White I'm going to go ahead and combine these too. To me, they bring different, but equally valuable, potential to the SF position. If they are for real, the draft scouts will find out, and they will go top 5 (second SF taken). But like Griffin, in those drafting positions I'm think bigger. I'm not going to trade way up just for JoJo/White versus Chandler or Gasol. If JoJo/White fall below Chandler and Gasol, into a nice safe draft position around Boston's picks, I'd try to move up for them. But would remain satisfied with alternatives. Alternatives Look to trade down for Ken Johnson unless you really believe Woods/Haywood/Bradley can produce at #13. Find another Turkoglug in the draft. He went #16 last year and played just fine for the Kings. If you find these sleepers, you can trade down to get them. Trade down for Morris into a 2nd round position. Do not take him in the 1st round, that comes with a 3 yr guaranteed salary cap hit. I believe. Use your draft picks to pay off obligations. [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited June 01, 2001).]
The key to Gearld Wallace's game is that he has the athleticsm and he is a gym rat. HE WILL GET BETTER. He struggled his first year out of HS and will struggle his first couple years in the pros but the truth is that he will be the next TMac. While Langhi has a solid game, he is only the next Matt Bullard (OH BOY! ). He will never be a starter on a good team. Also, saying Langhi has the hops of Franchise is hilarious. Wallace has the hops of Francis but ...well..ummm....remember the movie "White Men Can't Jump"? Well, that basically explains it. Brent Barry and Casey Calvary have crazy hops representing all of us white boys but that's about it. Anyways, I'd love to get Ousmane Cisse and Gearld Wallace with 18 and 22. It won't happen but both of those guys work their talis off and give it all they've got.
It's been mentioned a couple times on this board that Langhi has one of the best verticals on this team. The ball boy speaks Unless you have some deeper connections with the team, I suggest you shut the hell up with your "Langhi can't jump" bull****. Just because he's white doesn't mean he can't jump. ------------------ I don't want to waste my time And become a casualty of society. I'll never fall in line Become a victim of your conformity and back down.
What the hell are you talking about?? I was just telling The Cat that he was really athletic. And if you do a one handed wind mill then you are considered a great athlete. Know what you are talking about before you make a fool out of yourself. ------------------ President of the Steve Francis, Jamal Crawford,Larry Hughes, and Charles Woodson fan club.
Wouldn't you like to see him and Francis have a dunk contest during practice?I know I would. Having Joe Johnson, Francis, Mobley, Wallace, and Webber would make us the most athletic team in the NBA. ------------------ President of the Steve Francis, Jamal Crawford,Larry Hughes, and Charles Woodson fan club.
