The tandem of Francis & Mobley have been together for 4 years & still have not gotten us into the playoffs, even once. While both have shown improvement in their respective games, they both still have major flaws. Francis has made adjustments to Yao's game & shown a willingness to take a backseat to Yao. However, he still makes bad decisions on the court, especially during crunch time. Moving him to the 2 guard & acquiring a legitimate, pass first PG would go a long way towards fixing that problem. For those that think he'll get upset about the move, don't worry about it. He's locked in for the next 6 years & has expressed a willingness to make the move. Mobley has shown a major improvement in his defensive game this year, but has never shot higher than a .438 fg% for the year. He appears to have not accepted Yao as the future of the Rockets & doesn't pass the ball too often. I know that he's a SG, but even the SG has to pass the ball from time to time. Another player that I'd like to talk about is Griffin. While he's shown improvement over last year, his shooting technique sucks. It's possible that his unorthodox flat shot could become very effective & in fact, very deadly (kind of like Jeff Bagwell's batting stance). However, with the size & athleticism of today's athletes, a flat shot will always be subject to being swatted back into your face. The coaches need to work on his shooting technique, his low post game, as well as increasing his strength this off season. Griffin will only turn 21 years old next month. So, he's got a lot of time to improve his game over the life of his career. The question is, do we want to wait? Now, back to the original subject of this thread. With the performance of Yao Ming this year, I have visions of returning to the Olajuwon years, where we built the team around our dominant big man. The difference this time, is that Yao appears to be further along than Dream was in his first year. He has better passing skills, a better understanding of the game, & more range on his shot. While he doesn't have the same quick foot work of Dream, he's not too far behind & he does have the added advantage of height/better court vision. We also have more talent already in place. This team seemed confused more often than not this year. One game they looked like they could beat any team in a 7 game playoff series, the next 3 games they looked like they would struggle beating a high school team. Maybe it's just growing pains, but most teams with 2 quality players, like Francis & Mobley, that have been together for at least 4 years, usually are able to make the playoffs. My proposal is that we rebuild the team around Yao Ming. Here's the steps that I'd pursue: 1) I'd determine which players I want to keep first. I'd make Ming off limits. I'd want to keep Cato as my backup center(Did I just say that?), Taylor as my backup PF(6th man offense off the bench), Nachbar(The jury is still out on him), & resign Posey for a reasonable amount(He brings a lot of energy & defense to the team. He also disrupts the other teams offense with his steals.). 2) I'd see what it would take to trade for Andre Miller. I'd offer Mobley/future #1 pick/filler. I wouldn't pay Miller the max though. If he wants that, I'd look else where. I'd also inquire about Maggette as a replacement for Mobley. 3) I'd inquire about Brand's availability. I doubt that he'd be available, but I have to ask. Perhaps Francis/Mobley/Griffin/Moochie/future #1 pick for Brand/Miller/Maggette. 4) If Brand can't be had, I'd start my search for a dominant PF to play alongside Yao, with Francis being the bait. I'm looking for a player with a solid low post game that can drop back & hit the trey when needed. Some players that would fit that need are: Shareef Abdur-Rahim (was being shopped)/Terry for Francis/Griffin Kurt Thomas (they'd have to throw in more talent for Francis) Brian Grant (31 yrs old-too old) Garnett (Yeah, right! Fat chance.) Rasheed Wallace (Too much of a headcase?) Antawn Jamison (He wants to play PF) Brand (Not likely) Some other options packaged with other talent: Al Harrington/Tinsley/Bender (Hmmmm) for Francis/Griffin Tyson Chandler/Donyell Marshall for Francis/Griffin Jerome Williams (A little light, but works hard) for ? Swift/Battier/#1 pick/filler for Francis Nene Hilario for ? Marc Jackson for ? (Contrary to popular belief on this board, I believe he'd be a very good PF for this team) Danny Fortson for ? (He averaged a double-double just last year. Is he in the Warrior's dog house?) Troy Murphy for ? Some possible FA's: Juwan Howard (solid numbers) Karl Malone (too old & looking to hook up with a playoff team) Jermaine O'neal (out of our price bracket) Tim Duncan (see Garnett comment) This is getting too long. To summarize: 1: I'd get a pass first PG, such as Miller, McInnis, Derek Anderson, etc. using Mobley/draft pick as trade bait (for Miller only). 2: I'd use Francis & any other player on the roster, except Ming, to get a star PF to put next to Ming. 3: I'd attach Moochie to any trade involving Francis & work a deal with Dallas to get Avery Johnson as my backup PG. 4: If I'm unable to find an acceptable trade involving Francis, I'll move Francis to the SG position & either trade for a lesser PF that compliments Yao, or make an offer to one of the FA PF's such as Howard or Malone. 5: If Francis is traded, I'll look to trade for a SG, or make an offer to one of the available FA's. 6: I'd resign Posey to a reasonable contract. In a perfect world my new roster would look something like this: C: Yao/Cato PF: Brand/Taylor SF: Posey/Rice/Nachbar SG: Maggette/Hawkins PG: Miller/AJ Or, it would look like this: C: Yao/Cato/Collier PF: SAR/Taylor SF: Posey/Rice/Nachbar SG: Terry/Hawkins PG: Miller/AJ But, most likely, it would look like this: C: Yao/Cato/Collier PF: Fortson, Jackson, or Howard/Taylor/T-Mo SF: Posey/Rice/Nachbar SG: Francis/Hawkins PG: Miller/AJ (I'd give Dallas the Drew obligation to trade Moochie for AJ) Or, we could just do nothing & hope that the team suddenly figures it out.
Wow, too much to quote. Pretty decent analysis. I think maybe you overstate the neccessity of getting a star PF to play alongside Yao - we just need one who comes to play everynight - 13 pts, 8 rebounds, 1.5 blocks on good shooting. Somebody like a Kurt Thomas sounds like the perfect fit. Godlen State has too many PF's and I wouldn't mind getting one (I'd assume Murphy is untouchable), although I think Antwan might be more of a system player, and until our system changes, he won't be that useful here. Also, I've been saying for the last month that they should make a play at Kidd (and by that, I mean, talk to Kidd, his agent, and see if they'd be interested and move from there). Clippers have a plaeyr here or there Iwouldn't mind, but taking Miller/Brand/Maggette soudns a littel risky. Yes, those 3 might be their best players, but that makes you question even more why they sucked soo much. Can't forget to talk about the absolutely encessary changes in the coaching staff - seeing Larry Smith's (10 years by your side, #1 assistant)absolute complete lack of doing anything decent in Rudy's now long absence says something, and it isn't good - especially when added on to the fact that Rudy hasn't been able to get the message across for years now (regardless of whether the message he was preaching was the right one or not). Coaching staff and system has got to change. If the Rockets are bottom 5, heck, even bottom 10, in assists per game again next year I might shoot myself - and that is a reflection of the system and the coaching staff.
Hottoddie, worthy emperor of trade scenarios: Your last scenario may be the correct one. We may well have all the talent we need. They remind me of the white horses in Ben-Hur -- winners when properly yoked. Center - Ming and Cato. PF - Taylor is showing his worth and Griffin is growing. SF - Rice and Nachbar (Rudy loves pure shooters. SG - Posey backed up by Mobley. PG - Francis (because he is finally "getting it" and Maddox We need to retain Collier for backing up the center and PF positions; T-Mo for backing up SF and PF positions. We need to trade Moochie for a future first rounder. The Rockets absolutely need Posey's defense and decent scoring, but Mobley role as a Joe Dumars "microwave" instant offense could be vital by disrupting and shredding the opposing second string backcourt. Rudy was distracted this year. He needs to hire an offensive coordinator while he runs the team. The Rockets are not the Rockets without him -- just as Ben-Hur drove the horses while the Arab sheik rankled the Romans.
You can't possibly be serious. Dream averaged 20.6 ppg 11.8 rpg and 2.68 bpg his rookie year and that's playing next to a dominant big man. In fact, they didn't really even run plays for Dream at first. The difference between the two is that Dream didn't need to be given the ball every time down. His rookie year, he avaeraged 20 ppg pretty much off of offensive rebounds He was a demon on the glass. His blocks were unbelievable. He could recover from twenty feet away and still protect the basket. And until we see Yao running down point guards and spinning through four and five men to score don't ever compare the two as far as quickness. Yao is a better passer and a better shooter. However, Hakeem had something Yao sorely needs - heart, desire, intensity a refusal to lose. He simply would not be denied. Dude was relentless. He was constantly attacking, getting the other teams big men in foul trouble because he quite simply couldn't be guarded. Period. So as much as you might think that a system or this or that carried the Rockets to championships, it was the utter dominance of one man that picked up an entire franchise and carried it to two championships. If Hakeem had ever had a guard as talented as SF to play alongside early in his career, the Rockets would have at least four championships. I know you're excited about Yao, but DO NOT DIS THE DREAM!!! And if Yao wants to be considered as anywhere near the dream, tell him he needs to BRING it every game, every play and quit being pushed around. Just bring it, Yao.
Darn, I hate the edit function being turned off. Juugie, I just wanted to add that I totally disagree with your other posts suggesting trading Ming. He is no Dream now but he could be just as priceless one day.
if you guys really want to trade francis, the best scenario would be if detroit ended up with the number 2 pick since they get memphis lottery pick if its not number one. C Yao SF Carmelo Anthony PF Eddie Griffin SG Jon Barry PG Chauncey Billups Detroit trades jon barry, chauncey billups, and number 2 pick which rockets use on carmelo anthony. yeah, i'm dreaming. it'll never happen. but it's nice to dream isn't it? obvious reasons for the trade: billups is the same size pg as francis, and he's a clutch player. you must have seen him hit countless three pointers at the buzzer this year. jon barry is one of the barry brothers with the shooting touch from outside, nice option to have at shooting guard to either back up mobley or start in front of mobley. carmelo anthony is just amazing and would be the perfect small forward for the rockets. unless darko milicic is really as good as people say. the only way this trade happens is if detroit's gm smokes as much marajuana as eddie griffin does though.
Your post is in good taste, but this is where you are way off. Yao is a different type of player, but has everybit as much heart, desire, intensity, etc., just in a different way. What Hakeem had was freaking amazing - unbelievable in a way that few will ever match (Shaq being the only one since him to do so). Although, many, including myself, would argue that Hakeem benefited from a better team and specifically froma bigman to play with. I think Yao's offensive boards would easily double if he was playing next to Sampson, too. Still nowhere near Hakeem, but better.
Actually, I kind of feel this proposal. Detroit hasn't had much sucess building through the draft recently, but have made very astute FA acquistions / trades. As much as Francis perplexes me at times, he would, or at least should, absolutely dominate the East. Plus, Detroit plays in a slower system, but one with more defined roles and plays, something I think Francis would be able to adapt well to. While some could argue that Billups isn't your true PG either, his assist:turnover ratio is good and, last year in Minnesota he average 5.5 a game, as opposed to the 3.8 this year, where he has been required to score more. Barry would be a good backup as well.
Your number of rebounds would go down if your played with another good rebounder - not up. And, if you put Hakeem in his rookie year on this team in place of Yao, they would be a top three seed in the west. Easy.
Hey, Yao brings a great set of skills to his position. He is a special player. But in the NBA, most of the time winning comes down to who is mentally tougher, who is more determined, who wants it more, who will not be denied. And that is the only thing really that bothers me about Yao. I haven't really seen that from him so far and I don't have a lot of faith that he will be able to just flip that switch come year two or five or ten. Without that, I think he is on target to be a Rik Smits kind of player. Don't forget, Rick had a sweet shooting touch, nice moves for a guy his size - (7'4) - and was a good passer. He was a very good player in this league, but not someone that you could realistically say was going to be able to lead you to a championship.
colin pine just helped me translate the idiot-ese language you wrote your post in and all i have to say is. rik smits averaged about 5 rebounds per game in his entire career. yao ming already exceeds that and is close to amare's rebounding numbers. does that mean amare is going to turn out to be rik smits also. and i i've never seen rik smits get 18 or 19 rebounds a game like yao has occasionally. smits career high in rebounds never even reached yao ming's rookie season high in rebounds. check his career stats, i've seen it. it's ridiculous how you compare the two. yao is the rookie leader in doubles doubles and that's rebounds and points. smits never did that. smits had no post moves. the guy faced up and shot a mid-range shot at amazing accuracy. he didn't have any back to the basket game. yao's fadeaway shot is like ewing's basically only more consistent. yao has a spin move to dunk the ball. smits was never athletic enough to do that. smits had a chronic foot problem to begin with. yao's passing game is much better than rik smits. smits is not known for his passing=not a great passer. smits rookie year assist numbers don't even come close to yao's. the only reason he later on had averaged around 1 assist was cause he had reggie miller. smits has never done any amazing passes as yao has this year. smits also was known for committing r****ded fouls and fouling out of the game a lot. i watched him in the playoffs. anyway, bottom line is yao ming in his poor physical condition is still not as weak as rik smits. and yao ming is not a superstar yet either. but don't make dumb comparisons.
Rik Smits rookie numbers 11.7 ppg 6.1 rpg 1.84 bpg Yao Ming rookie numbers 13.5 ppg 8.2 rpg 1.74 bpg Hakeem Olajuwon rookie stats 20.6 ppg 11.8 rpg 2.68 bpg Yao's number are a lot closer to Rik Smits than they are to Hakeem, and he gets compared to Hakeem alot here. Also, Rik Smits had a similar inside game to Yao. He had a little up and under move but basically shot a fall-away. Yao does occasionally get a drop step spin that Rik didn't have, but it's not like he does that four or five times a game. He gets it once maybe three to five games. Yao Ming's fall-away is NOT more consistent than Ewing's. As a matter of fact, Yao does not consistently make his fall-away. More importantly, they played the game about the same way. Both finesse centers that shy away from physical contact Both basically offensive players - in fact, Rik Smits averaged slightly more blocks his rookie year than Yao is now. So, I think the comparisons are very fair. You may not want to hear that. You would rather someone tell you that Yao will be the next Wilt Chamberlain, but the stats don't lie, and until he proves differently, Yao is in the Rik Smits category. And please, no personal attacks. I have never called anyone an idiot no matter how dumb their posts were.
Your comparisons based purely on stats are fair. I don't think Rik Smits had much of an inside game though. A lot of his points came from wide open jumpers off Mark Jackson's penetrations. I do believe once a smart coach tells Yao to work on his jump hook and turn it into his main offensive shot, then I could see Yao easily averaging 25 ppg. Rebounds will come along as he learns to get position. Rebounding is not about speed, quickness, height, or jumping ability. It's all about positioning...just ask Barkley. But then again rookie stats are meaningless if you're gonna use them to judge a player's future. Just ask Kobe/TMac/Rashard/JO'Neal. And don't tell me they were just 18 year old kids who just came out of high school. You can't seriously tell me that what they faced was more of a challenge than what Yao faced. Yao should get ROY JUST for adapting so well.
using your logic: kevin garnett: 10.4 ppg 6.3 rpg 1.6 bpg yao: 13.5 ppg 8.2 rpg 1.74 bpg amare: 13.4 ppg 8.9 rpg 1.0 bpg sabonis: 14.5 ppg 8.0 rpg 1.1 bpg these are all rookie year stats in the nba that you could compare to rik smits if you ignore the rest of these players actual abilities and just use 3 statistics as comparisons. and since you really want to say how numbers don't lie. yao's rebounding numbers are clearly better than rik smits. that's a fact. smits never and i mean never came close to getting yao's 19 rebound rookie year career high in his entire career. also i would never compare yao ming to wilt chamberlain and i don't think he'll ever be a legendary center or any of that bs. But he is better than rik smits and if you haven't been smoking pot you could tell that much. also these two players you keep on comparing are playing in different eras with different rules so its stupid to even make that comparison. also about yao's fadeaway shot, that's actually his best shot in his offensive arsenal at this time. so saying he doesn't make that consistently is ridiculous. his field goal percentage speaks for itself. yao's hook shot is ugly. that's a fact. also since you want to make comparisons so much. i compare you juugie's athletic and mental ability to a r****d i saw in the special olympics. no offense to the r****ded people in the world. it's not their fault that they're "SPECIAL."
I totally agree, Junggie, although Yao should have more upside than Rik Smits. But with the way it sets up that Yao has to play for the NT every summer, Yao could be more injury-prone than Rik Smits. Remember, Rik has chronic foot trouble. I still believe Rox can not build around Yao. As much as I like Yao as a person and a basketball player, and I wish he does not need to play for the NT every summer, but the prospects for Yao to be a dominant player do not look very good. Eventually, with the right personnel and circumstances, Yao might win one championship, but I do not see a dynasty here and even one championship is difficult. Sooner or later, Yao needs to seriously consider what his career objective is, to win a NBA championship or to win a medal in Olympics. IMHO, Right now, he should think about becoming a dominant player in the NBA first, but his summer commitment will seriously undermine his effort.
Well let's get it on then, Rik Smits career high in rebounds is 17 @ Philadelphia 4/16/99 - even my r****ded, pot smoking self can see that 17 is close to 19 Also, high school players for the most part don't count in the arguement because they aren't fully physically developed at 18. Yao may be a little better than Rik Smits but they play the same kind of game and their numbers are similar so the comparison is valid. And who cares if he makes his fall away consistently? (Which he doesn't) What good is a guy being 7'5 when he's shooting 15 foot fade away jumpers? That totally defeats the purpose of being 7'5. I'll bet Yao Ming got his shot blocked more times this year than Rik Smits got blocked in his first five. And what makes him so much better than Rik Smits right now. Today? I'm not talking about anyone's projections. List for me the reasons why he is better than Rik Smits this season. Again with the personal attacks. Be mature and be an adult.
