The Rockets must get into the top 10!! All could could be all stars up to this point

I challenge you to name just 1 draft in history where the top ten picks became consistent all-stars. Don't believe the hype.

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The ox is slow but the Earth is patient.

[This message has been edited by Timing (edited June 09, 2001).]

 

It's a very deep draft, but there's not a single player that is a guarenteed franchise player. That's why there are so many teams with high picks looking to trade down.

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vince,

You seem like an excited guy. lol.

Here's my challenge to you. I want you to accurately name the 10 all-stars you see in the top 10. Since you're salivating as well, go ahead and give us all of your "franchise" players. Or are the ones you listed the only franchise players you see?

I'll keep your list. We'll check on it as the season goes along. Keep in mind there are very few "franchise" players that need more than 1 year to be very good basketball players if even that long.

Up for the challenge?

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"Light travels faster than sound, so some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak." -- Brian Williams (now Bison Dele) commenting on Isiah Thomas.

 

The best draft, picks 1-10, that I can remember is the 99 draft.
1.Elton Brand: great post player, averaged 20 and 10 for 2 straight years.
2.Steve Francis: great athleticism, good jumper, needs to improve playmaking skills, bonafide superstar in the making
3.Baron Davis: Outstanding hops, speed, and anticipation on defense; still needs to improve jumper
4.Lamar Odom: Pat Riley called him the closest thing to Magic Johnson he has ever seen; future is extremely bright
5.Jonathan Bender: Hasn't been able to get consistent minutes in Indiana, still has good potential
6.Wally Szerbiak: Great shooter, could eventually be the second scorer to Garnett instead of Brandon.
7.Richard Hamilton: Outstanding second year, averaging 20+ ppg when in the starting lineup, including a couple 40+ point games
8.Andre Miller: Similar to Jason Kidd in playmaking abilities, Michael Jordan covets this guy, offering the #1 pick for him straight up, which the Cavs declined
9.Shawn Marion: Outstanding rebounder for a SF, averaging over 10 boards a game, good shooter and outstanding athleticism as well
10.Jason Terry: Emerged this year as a rising star and flourished after being moved to 2 guard. Averaged 19 ppg after subpar rookie season
All of these players could emerge as stars in this league. Bender is the only player yet to make impact.

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"See they pick and pick and pick. Man they picked me to death."
-Steve Francis on the Utah Jazz

[This message has been edited by LiLStevie3 (edited June 09, 2001).]

 

So there you go timing, that's as close as it gets huh?

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"See they pick and pick and pick. Man they picked me to death."
-Steve Francis on the Utah Jazz

 

Yeah, I guess so. I think if you add up those ten guys you have about zero all-star berths combined after two years. Which of those are the "franchise" players again?

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The ox is slow but the Earth is patient.

 

So you don't consider Francis a franchise player?

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Is this what you wanted?!?
Is this what you had in mind?!?
Is this what you wanted?!?
Cuz this this is what you're getting!!!
I hope, I hope, I hope, you choke!!!

 

Timing, those players have only been in the league 2 years for god sakes. Franchise should have been an all star this year, and Brand should have as well over Mason and Grant Hill. Look at all the talent and upside that the players in the top 10 of that draft possess. Franchise and Odom are gonna be in the top 5 or 10 players in the league within 2 years. Brand, Davis, and Marion will be legitimate superstars. Terry, Miller, Hamilton, and Sczerbiak all have a very good chance to become stars and maybe superstars in this league. Bender still has a lot of untapped potential. In 5 years, that draft will be looked upon as the deepest draft of the 90s. You can't judge how good a draft class is by the number of all star berths after 2 full years in the league. Now if you are telling me that the top 10 players in that draft don't all have potential to be all stars, you got to be kidding me. Considering the fact that you don't consider Francis or Odom franchise players, you are kidding me.

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"See they pick and pick and pick. Man they picked me to death."
-Steve Francis on the Utah Jazz

[This message has been edited by LiLStevie3 (edited June 10, 2001).]

 

I think some of you guys are confusing "franchise" players with very good players or even all-stars. There have only been a handful of "franchise" players. Allow me to rattle off a few :

Michael Jordan
Hakeem Olajuwon
Larry Bird
Magic Johnson
Kareem Abdul Jabbar
John Stockton
Karl Malone
Tim Duncan
Shaquille O'Neal
Kobe Bryant
Vince Carter

This is the caliber of player you talk about when you say franchise. Let's see if Diop, Richardson, et al. get to be called franchise players because if they do, they're on the same level as the players in my list above. They are the elite of all-stars. To put it in perspective, Antonio Davis is an All-Star... he is not a franchise player.

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"Light travels faster than sound, so some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak." -- Brian Williams (now Bison Dele) commenting on Isiah Thomas.

[This message has been edited by Dr of Dunk (edited June 10, 2001).]

 

The allstar game is fun to watch, but the way starters are voted on is a complete joke. A bench player, Kobe Bryant, was voted in as a starter.

Elton Brand, Steve Francis, Baron Davis, Lamar Odom,Shawn Marion, and even Andre Miller play allstar caliber basketball, but don't have the Kobe like hype to get themselves voted in as starters, and second year players will never get the nod over an established veteran by the coaches.

I agree that only two of the players listed, Odom and Francis, are franchise players.
Also, aside from Bender(bust in the making), all those players will be or already are stars.

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The truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off

[This message has been edited by tacoma park legend (edited June 10, 2001).]

[This message has been edited by tacoma park legend (edited June 10, 2001).]

 

Thank you tacoma, I agree with your post. I consider a franchise player to be a player that a franchise can or is building around. They don't have to be in the top 5 or 10 players in the league, they have to eventually be but they don't have to be right away, which is why I consider Odom and Francis franchise players.

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"See they pick and pick and pick. Man they picked me to death."
-Steve Francis on the Utah Jazz

 

Also DoD, you're missing Iverson, Mcgrady, and Garnett to name a few on your list of franchise players based on your criteria.

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"See they pick and pick and pick. Man they picked me to death."
-Steve Francis on the Utah Jazz

 

That's why I said I'd rattle off a few... I had no intention of typing all 100 of them. lol.

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"Light travels faster than sound, so some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak." -- Brian Williams (now Bison Dele) commenting on Isiah Thomas.

 

I understand DoD, but on your post before, you said only a handful...

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"See they pick and pick and pick. Man they picked me to death."
-Steve Francis on the Utah Jazz

 

I think this draft is way overhyped most of thease players are out of highschool
now the talent is there but what about the
wisdom or the skills that can only be learnd
who the top ten players are is yet to be
seen but it is easy to say that 3-4 of thease players could be in the C.B.A. or
Eroupe in 3-4 seasons you never know

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You're right. Maybe I should've said "a small fraction" or perhaps "disproportionate few". Oh, and you forgot Oscar Robertson and Wilt Chamberlain.

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"Light travels faster than sound, so some people appear to be bright until you hear them speak." -- Brian Williams (now Bison Dele) commenting on Isiah Thomas.

 

Your post is a perfect example of the overuse of the word superstar. Shaq, Kobe, Vince, Iverson... these are superstars. Francis, Odom, Brand... these are NOT superstars.

I would consider a franchise player to be a special player when drafted. David Robinson, Shaq, Duncan, Ewing, Vince Carter, Hakeem, Jordan, Magic, Bird. All of these players were clearly franchise players in their first season. Then there are players who, down the line, develop into franchise players. Kobe, McGrady, Iverson, Malone. Are you going to put Francis in that class? I don't think so. Could he develop into a franchise player? Possibly but it's not a given.

If you consider Brand to be a franchise player, do you consider Abdur-Rahim to be one? Hell no! Odom, Terry, Davis, Hamilton, and Wally? If Bender is a franchise player what is Jermaine O'Neal? Is he now one too? You've got to be kidding ME. Franchise players are MORE than just all-stars. Franchise players are MVP candidates and players that you can build an entire team around and expect to contend for a title. There are a couple very talented players in the list you provided but none have even been all-stars yet and to stretch it further to say they're franchise players is just not accurate at all.


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The ox is slow but the Earth is patient.

 

Timing, read my post. I said that Francis and Odom are the only franchise players, because they will be in the top 5 to 10 players in the league in 2 years. I said that Marion, Baron, and Brand could or will develop into legitimate players, and the rest of the players should or could develop into all-stars, even Bender could. You challenged a person to name a draft with picks 1-10 being consistent all stars. I named the 99 draft as the closest draft. Read my post, before claiming I have said anything.

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"See they pick and pick and pick. Man they picked me to death."
-Steve Francis on the Utah Jazz