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The Rockets are one good PG away......

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by DaDakota, May 31, 2007.

  1. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    My Point is. . Would JVG allow Tony Parker to Play *his* game
    JVG kind of seems have an ideal of what he wants to do
    and does not seem to deviate from it at all
    he doesn't seem to allow too much deviation from players

    I think Tony would be the Caged Bird in JVG's System

    Rocket River
     
  2. generalthade_03

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    Evan,

    Grumpy believed in Reefer and let Reefer run the team, look where Grumpy is now, on TNT and not coaching.

    I have always thought that from the beginning, Gundy's love for Reefer would ultimately be his demised.

    If you look at all of the teams that were or are in the playoffs, with the exception of a few, most are solid at the 1 position.

    For the life of me, after watching Reefer played all season long and the first round playoff exit, how can some of you still think Reefer is OK and was not a problem?
     
  3. Dark_Tower

    Dark_Tower Member

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    I'm willing to listen to this. But assuming that Rafer remains the Rockets' starting PG (a large assumption at this point), who steps up as the third scorer? It seems like Rafer fell into that role by default, and I agree with you and Clutch that the role does not befit him. I, like most Rocket fans, suffered near apoplectic fits at teardrop #50, but I don't hate Rafer or his overall game. IMO, Rafer suffered from "Peter Principle" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_principle), in the sense that it fell upon Rafer to be a third scorer. I won't call him a "dog", a la Clutch, but Rafer is still the biggest question mark. If another PG can't be brought in, limiting his shots would be the next best step to me.
     
  4. aamir

    aamir Member

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    Individual player comparisons are a terrible way to measure a team... the Jazz match up with the Spurs individually but they just got blown out. Our 7-game series ending with a home loss while trailing for 90% of the series despite pulling out three wins is a far cry from the five game showing of dominance that the Spurs just exhibited.

    The NBA is all about match-ups, and the Spurs are a much more versatile team. We could probably contend well with them as we are, but a better PG wouldn't make us contend any better with the Suns. The difference with how we match up against the Suns and how the Spurs did was largely in Duncan's ability to be an excellent rotator in their pick and roll defense and the Spurs ability as a team to control pace or play faster if they had to, and have players step up and make shots. It's not like Tony Parker shut down Steve Nash.

    We've got a lot of holes to fix before we can legitimately contend. If it wasn't for having two all-world players in Yao and T-Mac, it would be hard for us to even pretend right now.
     
  5. TTRocket

    TTRocket Member

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    I definitely see your logic, but I still disagree. EVEN if Rafer wasn't our 3 scoring option, I don't really see what benefits he brings to the team. I see Rafer as a player who can bring the ball upcourt, hand it off to Tmac and thats about it. Sure he gets a lot of steals, but I don't equate this with good defense. He definitely cannot stay with quick 1s, and I wholeheartedly disagree if you think Bowen is worse than Rafer at guarding quick 1s. Bowen is still quick and has length and anticipation that Alston simply does not have. Our PG doesn't have to be Nash, D Will, Chris Paul, Baron Davis etc...but at least have an appreciable NBA skill that warrants you playing 40+ minutes a night.

    Rafer cannot score, that much we know. However, his job as a PG is to set people up for easy shots, make the game easier for others. HE DOES NOT DO THIS. It is Tmac's and Yao's job to do this. If he was capable of setting up others, we wouldn't be having this conversation. However, the fact that he does not distribute the ball well AND cannot score is a lethal combination for any PG in any system. And please don't give me the hackneyed excuse that "without Alston the offense stinks". That's only because we have 2 NBDLers backing up Rafer. I'm sorry, I just don't see any redeeming qualities Alston has.
     
  6. Rashmon

    Rashmon Member

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    Since he can't do it himself, and following Clutch's lead...

    Last year it was clear the Rockets had some issues to address coming into the offseason ...

    So they then go out and get V-Span, and Synder, and get a bonus by bringing in a proven NBA talent in Bonzi Wells...

    So, what happened? JVG ....

    CD gave him an attacking PG, a strong SG with the ability to finish around the rim, a post up 2 guard that can rebound, and an undersized PF to stretch the defense.

    What did JVG do? ...

    The problem is that those players are still just as flawed this year as they were last year, and by not playing the new players, JVG ...

    plenty of teams have attacking 2 guards and PGs......

    The Rockets have them too, they just withered on the bench.......

    CD gave JVG the options, he just chose to ignore them.

    DD
     
  7. crash5179

    crash5179 Member

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    Would that fact have anything to do with the JVG dump it into Yao and everyone else stand around the arc type off offense the Rockets have utilized?

    As a team the Rockets did not exactly attack the rim. And the players that do attack the rim don't get playing time. Bonzi, VSpan, Snyder etc...all sat the bench because they did not shoot the 3 pt shot very well.
     
  8. crash5179

    crash5179 Member

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    The Mav's have also been good at giving their young talent enough playing time to develope.

    Steve Nash was given a ton of time while not being very good and also being injury prone his first couple of years with the team.

    Dirk was given a ton of time regardless of the fact that he had a less than inspirable rookie season.

    Devon Harris has been given a ton of time to develope and was the driving force in last years play off series win vs. the Spurs.

    Josh Howard is another player that got the time he needed to develope and look at him now.

    Just watch how Maurice Auger developes under the Mavs.

    All of those players range from players aquired via trade to players taken in various stages of the draft and yet all were given the time needed to develope.
     
  9. rocket3forlife2

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    U think Ginobli is more efficent even though he isn't the star plus he is way more aggresive.

    to me its ginobli >t mac

    Mac seems like he has a problem with his focus when the game gets tough...instead of driving to the land like ginobli and causing havock he tensnd to settle for jumpers.If mac is hot he is unstopable, but you hav eto think about how hard it is to stop ginobli when he is hot also.
     
  10. yaozzzi

    yaozzzi Member

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    Battier is better than Bowen. Better over all player...
     
  11. doublebogey

    doublebogey Member

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    Well, put Battier on Steve Nash, Steve Nash has a field day. Put Bowen on Nash, Nash has a dog-fight day.

    You can always take Battier 3 more pts average or +/- stats and argue Battier a better overall player. But as a defender or impact player of the game, Battier is not even close to Bowen.
     
  12. Rocket G

    Rocket G Member

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    DD.

    You must have been high when you posted this.

    That is all.
     
  13. Amel

    Amel Member

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    this has been mentioned many times, but the pro JVG boys are denying it with arguments like "the time the guy played, he did't show much, he's low IQ, he's fat, he's a TO machine, blah blah blah"

    actually most of those guys are non-believers! I personally believe in this team, as it is, and would give anyone a chance under Adelman..you build a team for years to come, you can't get 2-3 guys and expect the team to win big...it takes time, patience and a whole lot of basketball knowledge...

    CD did a great job, with limited resources he got what the rockets wanted...JVG could not bring it and I feel like not only Les, but also CD was upset about the handling of some of the players by JVG...keep in mind, JVG was loyal and a very professional guy, no one in management would just go out and speak bad about him, that would not make sense...

    :cool:
     
  14. TheBornLoser

    TheBornLoser Contributing Member

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    We are not one good PG away from being a contender. We are one CONSISTENT THIRD SCORING option away from being a contender. Someone who can create his own shots, take on his opponent one on one and can create something out of nothing.

    That guy can be in either the point guard position or the power forward position.

    Essentially, you need a kind player where at the end of the day, if you need him to score, you just 'pass him the damn ball', and not have to create for him too.

    That's why saying that the entire key to making the Rockets a contender is to have an upgrade over Rafer is IMHO, flawed. Granted, having someone with Rafer's ballhandling skills AND the ability to hit the open shot would make us a contender... but so would be having a PF who can rebound AND make his own shot (ala Tim Duncan, Dirk Nowitzki... or to go down the ladder a bit more, Chris Bosh, Rasheed Wallace, Walter Hermann...). If we upgrade the PF position, and still keep Rafer, all Rafer has to do is just either pass the ball to the PF or Yao and let them have their shot. Same with T-Mac; the offensive burden will not all be 'on him'.

    My conclusion is therefore, getting an upgrade at EITHER PF or PG and one that is a CONSISTENT THIRD SCORER. Don't forget ultimately, that every major Western team had 3 options. Teams like the Rockets and Denver, who had only 2 options (or LA, which had only one :p) went out in the first round.

    Also don't forget what the word UPGRADE means. It means that all the new player has to have all the positives of our current players (at that position) and MORE. It means that a PG should have Rafer's ballhandling/low turnover, and a PF should have Chuck's hustle and energy and intelligence.

    Another point is that I personally think that this team does not lack heart, but it lacks leadership. Our boys have shown lots of heart in the game, but they have no leader to channel that heart in the right direction. Preferably, the upgrade, at whatever position he is, can bring leadership, stability and steadyness to the team.

    Which brings me to DD's question on whether we would be a contender with Tony Parker as PG. IMHO, we would only be one step better with Tony Parker at PG and that is only because I believe he is not a floor leader or the most stable minded of players.

    I believe that we WOULD be a contender if someone like Chauncey Billups was our PG.
     
  15. DaRhx5

    DaRhx5 Member

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    you forgot their bench and coaching staff. Who in our bench is better than Finley, Brent Barrry, Robert Horry. Wit the exception of Barry, these guys could start games and still do well against us. We dont need just a pg, we need a bench, we need contributors, we need a coach that will take us to the next level.
     
  16. emjohn

    emjohn Member

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    I'm okay with agreeing to disagree. I try not to be "that guy" that goes blue in the face trying to get the planet to change position. I certainly wouldn't say that the offense stinks without him.

    I'm not saying Rafer's our answer - just that we could probably get by with him if Adelman put a restrictor plate on his shooting.

    I'd say that the Cavs, Lakers, Nuggets (Blake), Orlando, and perhaps even Dallas (Harris) and Miami (Williams) went into the playoffs with comparable PGs to Rafer; if better, not by a significant degree. Maybe it's not a coincidence that only one of them advanced out of the first :)

    Evan
     
  17. DonkeyMagic

    DonkeyMagic Member
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    1 unknown. 1 underachiever (for 2 other very good coaches) and 1 malcontent fatty.




    well lets cover the other side of the page. 1 turnover prone pg that wasnt ready for the nba and was only braught over as a last resort. 1 SG who cannot shoot and cant dribble very well, not to mention has serious mental lapses on the court.





    what good playoff teams does snyder and vspan sniff the court? like i mentioned earlier, yes they can attack but at what cost to the overall game? those guys are seriously deficient in just about every other aspect.


    yes, options were given...but that doesnt mean the options were good. I have the option to to shove paper clips into my eyes, but it isnt a good idea
     
  18. eaglewu

    eaglewu Member

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    We are only a Kobe away...
    Replace Rafer with Kobe. I am sure we can win it all for several years.
     
  19. eaglewu

    eaglewu Member

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    Add Kobe to the roster, it solves

    [*]1 good PG
    [*]1 good bench full of role players
    [*]1 leader with heart
    [*]20 fewer jumpshots per game
    [*]20 more drives to the basket per game
     
  20. doublebogey

    doublebogey Member

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    We are only one Kobe, one Duncan and one Nash away from a dynasty of 4-peat.

    I dont even care about what the bench will be.
     

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