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The real truth behind the current scandal rocking the Catholic Church...

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout' started by x34, May 2, 2002.

  1. x34

    x34 Member

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    I had heard about this book a while back in a very good editorial about the current situation facing the American Catholic Church.

    I thought I would post it, in light of the most recent priest rape news today. This should be an excellent read for anyone wanting to truly understand the real cause of the problems facing it today, or anyone who's tired of the media's outright refusal to talk about it. I'm picking my copy up tonight...

    Goodbye, Good Men

    How did the American Catholic priesthood go from an image of wise, strong men like Spencer Tracy in Boys Town and Bing Crosby in Going My Way, to an image of "pedophile priests"?

    In Goodbye, Good Men, investigative reporter Michael S. Rose provides the shocking answer – an answer the mainstream news media has missed.

    He uncovers how radical liberalism, like that found on many college campuses, has infiltrated the Catholic Church and tried to overthrow her traditional beliefs, standards, and disciplines – especially Church teachings on sexuality. In bringing the "sexual revolution" into the Church, liberals have welcomed – even preferred – radicalized active homosexuals to orthodox seminarians in the name of "diversity" and "tolerance." That "tolerance" has now been exposed as a toleration of criminal acts.

    Here, in stunning detail, is the story behind the headlines – the story that made those very headlines possible. As Dr. Alice von Hildebrand says, Goodbye, Good Men "holds the key to a phenomenon which, to many, is also an enigma: Why are so many seminaries empty? Michael S. Rose has the courage – a courage that many Church leaders lack – of giving us the fearful but uncontestable answer: because vice has penetrated into many of them, and those who do not condone vice are excluded."

    A riveting work of extraordinary reporting, Michael S. Rose shows how the very institutions charged with inculcating Catholic theology and discipline have come to prefer gay priests to straight ones, pop psychology to religious devotion, and Playboy to the pope.
     
  2. x34

    x34 Member

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    Here's a link to the story I mentioned above...an excellent read.

    Rod Dreher on Homosexuality & Catholic Church

    Andrew Sullivan is a brilliant journalist whose work I treasure, but he is wrong on the gay-priests issue. He attacks me today for having a "gay problem" when it comes to homosexuality and the Church. He's right; I do. So does he. And it's on this dispute that the future of the Catholic Church in America rests.

    Sullivan is angry that in my comments in The Corner, I've often connected the homosexuality of priests accused of pederasty with their alleged crimes. He resents my comments about the "lavender mafia" running much of the institutional Church (the phrase is Fr. Andrew Greeley's, and he's hardly a Catholic conservative). He disdains my remarks about how some gay priests in control of seminaries and chanceries use their power to persecute orthodox, heterosexual priests and seminarians, and he resents my remarks about some seminaries being not much better than "gay brothels."

    I draw those dire conclusions not on "hearsay," as Sullivan says, but on reporting and years of conversations with priests, who have told me more than I wish I knew about what it was really like in their seminaries. It will be interesting to see how Sullivan will react to author Michael S. Rose's forthcoming Goodbye! Good Men, which is the first book I'm aware of to systematically compile these stories from the seminaries, and to name names.

    I've just finished an early copy, and what it documents is absolutely astonishing, and cannot be ignored except by those who do not want to see. This bombshell book reveals a seminary underworld in which homosexual promiscuity and sexual harassment is rampant, in which straight men are marginalized and demoralized, and seminarians who support the Church's teaching on sexuality and the priesthood are persecuted, even to the point of being sent off, Soviet-style for psychological evaluations. Many of these guys are rejected from entering the seminaries, expelled, or driven by depression to leave.

    The book was substantially written before the Boston scandal broke, and it contains damning information about the homosexual domination of St. John's Seminary in Boston during the time that many of the priests accused in the current scandal there were ordained. How can you blame people for wondering if there's a connection between the outlaw homosexual culture of that seminary, and the outlaw homosexual culture that some 80 priests in Boston participated in?

    Even seminary rector the Rev. Donald Cozzens, in his much-praised book The Changing Face of the Priesthood, writes that the increasing presence of homosexuals in the priesthood causes particular problems for straight seminarians, and not for the usual bugbears of "homophobia." The Catholic laity have a right to know if their Church's priesthood is becoming heavily gay, and what that means. Fr. Greeley writes, "The laity, I suspect, would say it is one thing to accept a homosexual priest and quite another to accept a substantially homosexual clergy, many of who are blatantly part of the gay subculture." What's more, I have been told by a number of sources, including psychiatrist Richard Sipe — no Church conservative he — that there does in fact exist a network of gay priests who support each other, sometimes through sinister ways (e.g., blackmailing bishops and others who threaten their activities).

    I have connected the homosexuality of those priests who have been publicly exposed as pederasts to their alleged actions for one main reason: The media will strain to avoid making the connection, for fear of being accused of homophobia. But this scandal cannot be understood and honestly dealt with in its absence. We hear over and over again that "pedophiles are mostly straight men." That may be true, but what we're seeing with priests is not pedophilia, which is a deep-seated psychological illness. What we're seeing is gay men who cannot or will not keep their pants up around teenage boys. Not teenage girls. Teenage boys.

    You cannot blame people for asking if there's something about the culture of homosexuality in the Catholic priesthood that fosters this phenomenon, if it's something more than a few bad apples, but a systemic problem. Maybe it's not. But it is not homophobic to ask, and the questions do not go away because Andrew Sullivan doesn't want to face them, for fear of what the answers might be.

    One reason this matters goes beyond the safety of teenage males, to the theological integrity of the Church. It doesn't take a sociologist or an investigative journalist to determine that people will go to great lengths to believe things that will justify their sex lives. It's very human; most of us have done it at one point in our lives. We've seen gay priests and theologians, aligned with feminist nuns and other dissenters (including heterosexuals, to be sure), working to change the substance of the Catholic faith, particularly on issues of sexual morality. And they're succeeding. In my experience, the only time most Catholics ever hear anything orthodox said about sexual morality from the clergy is when the Vatican says something. You can just as effectively change the belief of the people by not teaching the truth as you can by teaching falsehood.

    No serious Catholic could object to a homosexually oriented priest who is both chaste and openly supportive of the Church's teaching. We're not talking about these brave and faithful men. Does Andrew Sullivan believe gay priests should have a special dispensation giving them the right to be sexually active (as he apparently believes about himself as a Catholic)? Does he believe they don't have an obligation to live by authoritative Church teaching? Does he believe that good works and heroism in other aspects of their priesthood exempts them from fidelity and integrity in others (e.g., does Fr. Judge's bravery at Ground Zero earn him a pass on the fact that he was unfaithful to the Church on sexuality?)

    Or is it more important to Andrew Sullivan to be sexually active gay man than a faithful Catholic? You cannot have it both ways. Hence Andrew Sullivan's gay problem. Hence my own. Hence this painful discussion, which will soon occupy center stage in the public square as the scandal unfolds, and American Catholics are forced to deal with the homosexualization of the Catholic priesthood in America.
     
  3. dimsie

    dimsie Member

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    One positive review I found of this book also says that the author blames 'feminist nuns' for the current crisis. :confused:
     
  4. haven

    haven Member

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    Problematic, considering that the people generally encouraging homosexuals to enter the priesthood are those that believe that the cloth will somehow expunge the sexual flaws of the young priest...
     
  5. Jeff

    Jeff Clutch Crew

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    Can the Catholic Church possibly bury its head any deeper? So, this guy, in essence, is saying that the drive to push liberal ideology on people is also forcing homosexuality on them. Obviously, they have NO CHOICE but to go into the Catholic priesthood and rape young boys. How perfectly simple!

    Not only is that a ridiculous oversimplification of liberalism, but it is a way of placing the blame onto people who aren't even included in the religion. In addition, it equates gays with pedophiles which is even more bizarre.

    What is probably the worst of all is that it completely and utterly ignores self-responsibility in favor of "the devil made me do it" excuse. Many conservatives in the church PREACH self control and responsibility. They blast people who have sex out of wedlock or are homosexuals for lacking in control. They preach responsibility and self-reliance.

    Yet, when their priesthood is threatened by men who obviously could not control their own sexual urges, it is the fault of rampant liberalism, homosexuals and evil in the world. In the name of all that is holy, give me a freakin' break.

    Take responsibility for your actions for God's sake!!! Nevermind that statistics show that the vast majority of men who rape young boys are actually not homosexuals. Nevermind that there is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that the Catholic church is liberal in any way. Nevermind that there are millions of liberals who live ethical, even moral lives without falling neck deep into depravity and debochery.

    I just cannot believe that this man is dismissing the plight of CHILDREN as some world evil gone crazy. Isn't this the same church that sold indulgences to buy your loved one's out of pergatory? Isn't this the same church that led the crusades? Is there ever going to be a time when they can simply own up to the fact that they have ignored a problem for so long that it finally came up and bit them on the ass and they have no one to blame but themselves?

    Some of us actually take responsibility for who we are and how we behave. What a novel concept!
     

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